I have access to a gen set, it’s a Dorman 12qt and Stamford 500kva.
This engine is a bit of a monster. I hope to have it running later this week.
i think is going to run at about 1500rpm.
I plan to set it up with a two tank type system and run it on vegetable oil, I also have access to 3000ish lt of good used veg oil a week.

1) Anyone know anything about these engines And/or suitability to veg oil?
2) Any idea if principally there is any difference converting a large engine like this to converting a car.
3) Any tips for running large gen sets reliably on veg oil?

Basically any input in this project is appreciated.

Pete
Ps. it's like this one here , but not as tidy , I’ll try to post some pictures later.

wonder if it fit in a hummer.

Low speed, industrial diesels are suited to and capable of burning asphalt (bunker c) in a two tank system as seen in large ships. High speed diesels are unsuited to burning low volatility/ slow flame speed fuels- the fuel simply cannot completely combust in the nanoseconds available. I bet my butter you've got a great rig.
Cheers all!
SUB

-"diesel" is a distillate fuel which has evaporated- has some degree of 'volatility'- Bunker c is a residual fuel, the sludge at the bottom of the still that never evaporated, and yet, large slow engines burn it, after heating up the fuel system to the point that it will flow.
Slow speed diesels run from ?? 100 RPM - ??900 RPM: medium Speed ?900- ?2200 rpm and high speed anything above that. The 2 stroke 6V71 in my bus is governed at 1850, and had 0 coking after thousand of litres of slimy mystery goo had gone through her.

Think it's a bit to large for a hummer

Thanks sub, that’s promising and encouraging, If only I could get it started, one of the starter motors is shorted out. The other is fine but on its own I don’t think it can turn it over fast enough to start it and I can’t borrow enough batteries to turn it on for more than a minute.

some pics attached..

Anyone any idea how much fuel a rig like this uses per megawatt of electricity output. I'd like to do the math’s to see if i should just stick to selling my used veg oil to bio-diesel producers, I hope not!

P4200188(2).JPG (41 KB, 23 downloads)

..

P4200187.JPG (42 KB, 21 downloads)

Anyone know what the red plate on the alternator is about, ideal speeds?

"IMPORTANT
Do not idle this machine between
600 and 1350 RPM at 50 cycles 1500
600 and 1620 RPM at 60 cycles 189"

worries me a bit i dont what to start it up a break something

P4200186.JPG (21 KB, 17 downloads)

quote:

3) Any tips for running large gen sets reliably on veg oil?

From what I've read here and elsewhere, running a genset on SVO below 50% rated power leads to coking.
Its proportionate, a 5% load would be the worst.

quote:

Anyone any idea how much fuel a rig like this uses per megawatt of electricity output. I'd like to do the math’s to see if i should just stick to selling my used veg oil to bio-diesel producers, I hope not!

Anyone any idea how much fuel a rig like this uses per megawatt of electricity output. I'd like to do the math’s to see if i should just stick to selling my used veg oil to bio-diesel producers, I hope not!

You can find estimates from similarly sized new units that will advertise fuel usage.
220 g/kWh
iirc my calculations, for that engine at full load, would be 7-8 USgallons / hour.

I looked at this a lot a few years ago. It's hard to compete with commercial nuclear plants based on cost. In the USA some states will pay you generation + transmission rates, $0.12 /kwh, but most only will pay the generation rate, $0.06 /kwh. [0.08 GBP and 0.04 GBP]

If you can get biomass or renewable energy surcharges, that equal the generation rate, maybe you could do it.

Another problem is emissions. I don't know the rules in GB, but here you'd need a permit from the Dept of Environmental Protection. In CT, they are not wild about internal combustion engined electrical power generation. The regulations are complicated. Not for layman.

Interfacing to the utility is another headache. They are supposed to be able to to this, but based on my experience of a few years ago, they are not prepared, nor do they really want to connect to your equipment.

The REAL racket is to get setup as a standby peak power generator, collect checks for an idle generator and never actually deliver any power! :-O A recent scam in CT.

Re shorted starter: does it have extreme draw with no spin or no draw- could be an easy fix if it is brushes, contact disc or poor lead contact-
Keep us posted!
SUB

We think the r.p.m. warning means in order to get the output frequency desired you must run it at the r.p.m stated. 1500 r.p.m. for 50 hertz and 1800 for 60 hertz.

SUB is the only one I had ever found that has run a large diesel on veggie. Starters that sit for a long time sometimes get stuck brushes and their commutators get black with corrosion, especially if the unit has been sitting outside and a bit of moisture has got inside. Good luck, Phil.

Bad ground or positive connections (unless positive earth) can spark like fireworks, cause slow or no crank and give the impression of a 'short'. Good first step in any suspected starter problem is clean and make sound all connections from the battery down, and check for bad cables; and a sharp hit of a small hammer can coax stuck brushes.
Happy Tinkering!
SUB

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SUB,

thanks all for input so far

an update,

after checking, cleaning connections and terminals and lots of hitting it we decided to remove the starter motor. it took both Chris and i to load it into the back of the car. we've given it to a man who knows about starter motors. he's worked his magic and claims it's fixed, seems it was not in a good way. solenoid and main motor wiring or something.

we bought two batteries, the largest i could find! again it is just about all one person can do to move one of them.

The engine heaters are on and working (preheat water and oil), batteries are charging and both starter motors ready to go and ...... it starts


jburke, i don't think anyone can compete with the nuke boys, but they cheat big time, they don't take into account the cost of a few millennium of secure waste storage. i'd bet their costs spread sheet doesn't go that far. here, if your have a standby generator and it doesn't start you get BIG fines for every minute down. i don't want to go there. but like you allude to i bet there's a scam there some how

found this for fuel consumption
http://www.dieselserviceandsup...uel_Consumption.aspx

here in the UK we have ROCs this project should qualify for 1.5 roc per MWH.
http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Sustai...ges/RenewablObl.aspx

i\ve done the basic maths and it looks ok, roughly I'll get 30GBP per MWH and 67.5GBP for 1.5 ROCs (checked with green energy buyer) for approximately 350lt of fuel. minus running cost etc. i think im conservatively looking at 25pish per litre

however there maybe someone on site who will buy the power direct, i hope between what they currently pay and what ill get supplying the grid. that should tip the balance.

so now its getting it metered, connected to the grid and commissioned. get registered and approved for ROCs and do a deal with the composting plant next door. oh and convert the engine to veg, strange this now seems the easy bit. Simply a two way valve on feed and one on return fuel lines and a large heat exchanger just before IPs. run engine until hot then switch valve to veg. back to diesel before turning off.

Pete

-Sounds like you may be running this rig almost continually- would be advisable to have a standby of same or greater capacity; engineer large oil sump capacity, and automatic switching gear to avoid contractual problems,,,
The Canadian Coast Guard used Lister gen sets, with 50 gallon aluminum oil sumps and auto switc gear. Engine would run for six months, when a sump with new oil would be flown in by chopper- unit two started, and old oil sump switched with fresh.
Fun Stuff! keep it up!
HRMH

-I put my heat exchanger before the filters to aid flitration, depends how dirty and viscous your fuel is. I would add filter heat if I were to continue, but I'm looking at new horizons.
SUB

I have one of these Dorman's in my stable of generators at the hospital. A 500Kw unit very similar to yours. We don't run it anymore due to it's age. We have newer 1.6 Mw MTU Detroit units to replace it. It is too bad you are so far away as we would love to find someone to take out our old units for the cost of removal. As a rule of thumb we figure about 6gal/hr/100Kw for regular diesel as a consumption figure, I suspect the you would probably use 15-20% more than that given that Veg has less energy than Petro diesel. Cheers Dan

-My tests with a Lister Gen-Set showed:
Veg: Lower exhaust temp at idle, greater EGT at full load and producing more watts.
Diesel: Higher EGT at idle, lower EGT at full load and less watts.

Bus with 2 stroke GM diesel put out more horsepower on a dynamometer on grease.
the tests should be repeated to validate,
Cheers!
SUB