Oh,

Another note on the GF202 resin - originally this is the resin which turned me on to macroporous resin instead of the gel resin popularized by Rohm and Haas and then Purolite. The gel resin is less expensive to produce so was thought to provide the most realistic alternative to water washing or other dry wash methods.

Anyway Europe had been using the Lewatit K2567 and K2561 resins so they are a proponent of the macroporous resins since water washing has more cost in Europe than here. Well as it turns out the test performed on the Na+ form K2567 resin showed some unfavorable indications and we we're glad that our research had turned up other macroporous resin types.


Note the 40 degrees mentioned for processing is not the same as indicated by Lewatit's own test results. Their test results were done using biodiesel being purified at 28 deg. C. or 82 deg. F. - I believe the resins do a better job if its cooler however the viscosity goes up and this can significantly impact flow rates...

GCG

The engineers told me cold gives better results, but hot was less likely to foul. 40C was the sweet spot of best performance and least fouling.

i am new to bio diesel, i have designed and built an appleseed style processor using a 50 gallon water heater from home depot as well as the other necessary equipment required for this machine. i also built a standpipe style wash tank, i am not thrilled about water washing at all and have great interest in the dry washing process using amberlite. if we were to use amberlite to wash our fuel would our process in the reactor change at all? our intent was to use methanol and lye. any and all help would be appreciated, i am new to this and im setting up this machine to support my companies need for diesel fuel, so any and all improvements that can be made to speed up the process and gallon/hour output as well as making things less messy are very important for my application.

I am not sure if Resin cleaning sped up my process any but it sure made it less complicated.It has to be less expensive with no water being used and no heat being applied in the dryer.

A recent research paper published by Van Gerpen of Idaho University did a comprehensive cost analysis comparing ion exchange resin to both water washing and magnesol.

It was significantly cheaper than both with a much simpler waste stream than both.

The paper was published through ASABE - Title: Soap Removal from Biodiesel by "Waterless Wash" methods.

GCG

Any thoughts on upflow vs down flow?

It would be really easy to intorduce the bio from the bottom through the dip tube and let the clean bio out the top of the keg. I have found that with slow flow rates, the resin stays at the bottom and does not float to the top (the output)Now in your case with the faster rates, the resin might move a little through the bio as its coming in.

I use mine upflow and have had no problems.It is a very slow flow rate so no transfer of resin has occurred. Also, with the upflow at a slow rate, I don't think I am having any channeling either.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger744:
I use mine upflow and have had no problems.It is a very slow flow rate so no transfer of resin has occurred. Also, with the upflow at a slow rate, I don't think I am having any channeling either.

You are correct, your not channeling.

if using upflow, How and where are you putting the screen? with a really slow flow rate I have noticed the beeds stay at the bottom, are you even using a screen? Did you modify the keg at all or just put the resin in the keg close it up and start using it?

Chad - at what flow rate would you think channeling would occur using upflowing?

quote:

Chad - at what flow rate would you think channeling would occur using upflowing?

You should not see it at any recommened flow on up flow.

Maybe I am not sure what channeling is.... I would think that if you are flowing faster, the beeds will almost raise with the incoming bio and the bio will take the path of least resistance and make its way up through the beeds and not contact them enough to properly absorb the nasties in the bio. Does that sound right?

You think upflow is ok on the kegs Chad?


O and thanks again chad for the good price and fast shipping on my order!

quote:

Originally posted by Tubular031:
Maybe I am not sure what channeling is.... I would think that if you are flowing faster, the beeds will almost raise with the incoming bio and the bio will take the path of least resistance and make its way up through the beeds and not contact them enough to properly absorb the nasties in the bio. Does that sound right?

You think upflow is ok on the kegs Chad?


O and thanks again chad for the good price and fast shipping on my order!

Your Welcome,

The part that makes the BD Not channel when set up as upflow the beads are constantly moving, But keep in mind that when the resin swells over time you'll have resin flow out if the outlet is not screened.
-Your flow rate is the part that makes your BD have enough contact time with the resin.
As far as the kegs go I have only seen pictures of them I do not know how they are designed for flow.

I put a layer of marbles in the bottom with a screen over that layer.Then poured in the resin.I had to modify the dip tube a bit so it would go thru the screen near the center.My thinking was,the marbles would dissipate the flow enough the eliminate channeling. I made no modifications to the top of the keg.

OK so here is what I came up with. Let me know what you guys think. I was too lazy to get the screen and cut it and make a little hole for the dip tube and get marbles..... so I sorta did like legal eagle and put a screen on the bottom of the dip tube, clamped it on and put it all back together. the Bio comes in at the top of the keg, flows down through the resin then out the dip tube. I have 7 pounds of resin in each keg (lead and lag setup)and my target flow rate is maybe a gal an hour. I decided to have more resin then needed so that I can flow faster if needed, but also more resin in there and slower flow rates should help cover my paranoia on clean fuel.

Totally Tubular Dude,

Ya give it a try, it is simple and inexpensive howver you may have to cycle through the resin a few times to get all the soap out since there might be pooling occuring around the bottom at the intake point.

Let us know how it goes. Our you going to use fish gravel in the bottom of this set-up?

GCG

quote:

Originally posted by GCG:
Totally Tubular Dude,

Ya give it a try, it is simple and inexpensive howver you may have to cycle through the resin a few times to get all the soap out since there might be pooling occuring around the bottom at the intake point.

Let us know how it goes. Our you going to use fish gravel in the bottom of this set-up?

GCG

Growing up, my favorite show was ninja turtles and Michelangelo was my favorite!

I was not planning on (well, did not) put any gravel in the bottom.

How about running the first keg downflow and the second upflow? would that stop the soap issues you are talking about?

Also, how is the soap pooling there? shouldnt it stick to the resin as it makes its way down through the resin?

Sorry Tube,

I meant to say the biodiesel's flow through the column will "pool" around the intake on the pipe.

Because of this pooling effect, the flow won't be even through the column and therefore will not provide equal residence time for all the Biodiesel with the resin.

It's like a date between the BD and the Ion Exchange Resin; that has to last at least 20 minutes for consummation.

The soap molecule then exchanges its Na+ or K+ ion for a H+ ion - Leaving the Na+ or K+ ion in the resin bed and the remaining part of the soap molecule (a free Fatty acid)in the biodiesel.

This by-the-way, is why it is imperative to ensure the incoming soap is below say 2500 ppm because the released FFA's will make your fuel acidic and non-compliant with ASTM specifications.

GCG

I see your point GCG.

What do you think about doing up flow through the second keg? Would that be a better idea? down through the first then up through the second? I have to change the hose I used since its looking like the Bio is passing through the walls and the hose will die soon.... should have used vinyl from the get go... o well, another trip to the hardware store!

I have been kicking around the idea of adding a 3rd keg to my setup. Maybe ill put gravel in the bottom of the 3rd one and make that the first keg in the line.

I need to figure out that soap test to figure out what my incoming soap values are. Right now I am planning on settling the Bio (after de meth) for 3 or 4 weeks before it goes to the resin (sucking from the top 75%).

Tubular,

I would let the BD enter through the exit port and flow down the tube and slowly rise up through the resin bed and out the entrance port. It will give excellent "residence time" with the resin and prevent compaction because of the upward pressure from the BD. You could pick it up every once in a while and drop it a few inches to recompress the resin and prevent channeling. It works for me.

I did replace my pvc dip tube over the weekend with 1/2" black iron pipe and a 1/2" tee with mesh and pipe clamps to prevent any resin from backing up into the tube. Thanks for that idea, Legal.

Tubular,

I think it would be best to remove the paint/protective coating from the outside of the black pipe before running BD through the column.

My BD came out very dark when I ran it through. I am assuming it is from the pipe.