I came to a crossroad where part of me wants to keep making bio but its costing alot more than I planned. When heating oil was over $4/gallon last year the incentive was good. With about $2500 in the equipment and methanol and KOH running me over a buck gallon I need to make 2500 gallons just to break even at $2/gallon.

Wait and see what happens with Iran and Israel before you sell anything. The first cap they bust off at each other will be the absolute last we ever see of $2.00 a gallon fuel.

Oh and by the way-I don't brew to save money. I brew because a line had to be drawn in the sand somewhere and yes pun intended. We have to rethink the way we do things and this is the only thing I could do to see an immediate result. Besides that brewing is kewl.

If you are only using it for home heating, I can't advise you. If you think the price of oil products are going to stay low, I wouldn't count on it. Prices are already rising for RUG & Diesel. I just checked the price of crude oil and it is $61.56/barrel. It was around $40 just a few weeks ago.

It is definitely worth it to me. Now you could reduce some of your cost of producing by using NaOH instead of KOH.

You have $2,500 in equipment? What did you purchase for that?

I used to use Naoh. I like the glycerin staying liquid but I can see there would lower cost using NaOH. Its something to consider. I've keeping a tally since I started this project and the costs are up to $2600. I bought 2 cones from Bay Area biodiesel ,after shipping they were almost $100 each( I think their cheaper now)all the 1"pipe,elbows,tee's and other fittings,switches and 1" ball valves.digital scale, 4 CW pumps 'new fuel pump for the furnace and the list goes on. I've been spending close to $300 month to get the setup made . Back to the NaOH side, doesn't KOH work better on higher titrating oil? I'm kind 0of bummed out when I tested a tote of wvo and it titrated at 15 and when I came home from work the other day my wife said the furnace quit. i like the self-sufficiency aspect of home-brewing. At least that the way I view it.

I haven't re-couped my expenses yet, but it sure is nice to know I'm making my own fuel. And actually, I'm addicted to the aroma

So moth ball the setup and stock pile oil until the price dino goes up, which it will, then start up again, next question.

quote:

At what point did the savings on fuel cost pay for the project?

Right now the project calls for some bailout funding ,but the forms haven't come in the mail yet.

Darn it, I didn't contribute to the last presidential campaign

That's the point I'm getting at. So far there is no savings. The odds are not in my favor as long as oil prices stay at the current level. If I stockpile my bio the value will go up as long as barrel prices keep rising. Not to hard to figure that out.

quote:

Now you could reduce some of your cost of producing by using NaOH instead of KOH.

Input! beep

I think you got sucked into spending too much on equipment by reading too much. I tell people they can be making very good quality BD by spending $500. All the cone bottom tanks, dry wash, ect. are nice and cool but they aren't needed to make BD. Counting the furnace equipment into the total is not really part of the deal.

quote:

I think you got sucked into spending too much on equipment by reading too much.

Could be, but that cash is gone. So, looking at it now, it is question of whether or not it is fun as a hobby. I don't know what you earn per hour at work, or how many hours you spend per batch. Hopefully, with your "fancy" setup, it saves some time per gallon. In the end, it comes down to the question: Are you doing it to save $ or because you want to? Whatever the reason.

If it is only to save $, you might come out ahead spending time mowing lawns and spending that on fuel.

We're approximately 10 days and counting into phase II of the great American economic collapse. Every index is tracking what was expected for this phase: Silver over $14, gold over $900, oil back over $60, stocks giving a final heave before the next ratchet downwards for the Dow to probably 6000 or so...

Final word: get while you can, what you can, while the gettin' is (still kinda) good. Non-hybrid seeds outperformed gold in the last depression: there's never been a better time to get to know your neighbors and start establishing future barter relationships. A dollar only buys 94 yen and China and Brazil are working together to replace the dollar for their trade.

So, is homebrewing worth it? Since you may soon find yourself with nothing better to do, and having already invested in the equipment to make fuel for yourself and your neighbors, stick with what you know and keep a journal for the grandkids.

I hope I am very wrong...

i might have got swept up in the current,but I think other home brewers are spending alot more than I did. i didn't buy a couple of $250 water heaters for an appleseed. Did I over spend

The average guy building an appleseed with water wash spends from $500 to $1500 for total equipment outlay. That includes everything from WVO collection equipment to finished fuel dispensing. The range is because some buy everything new and others scrounge as much as possible. BTW the scroungers generally take six months to build an appleseed and those buying new will take about two weeks.

When I started making BD, I bought a brand new 50gal water heater off craiglist for $125. I couldn't find a used one. By the time I added the plumbing and pumps, I may have had $300 invested in my Appleseed. Since I never water washed, there were no expenses there. Another $100 for an oil collection pump. I later made a super sucker and that cost me $60 for the vacuum pump and $100 for a 90 gallon compressor tank. Another $20 for a vacuum guage and maybe $50 for the hose. My drywash system cost me initially about $50. I have since bought a new head for the water filter tank which set me back another $40. I guess I am a scrounger. A lot of the things that I needed, I already had; but was not using. I have easily recovered my costs for equipment.

Covering your costs is one benefit -- self sufficiency is a better one.

I think $500-$1500 for decent start-up cost is few and far between. i thought I could do everything for about $500 in the beginning but when you start buying 1" black iron fittings and brass ball valves ,pumps and electrical stuff the costs start to pile up. Right now I'm paying $3.50/gallon for methanol and can't find a source any lower. I see brewers in the southern states paying @$2 to 2.50/gallon but in the north its closer to $3 or more. I think alot of people dropout of homebrewing after they run into some of the obstacles. In some ways I don't want to dropout when I think there's a few hurdles to jump. #1 ) why does the furnace nozzle plug? Is it poor fuel quality or a junk filter.Filter is a Blu-flame 10 micron spin on I bought from Patriot supply. Maybe 10 micron isn't small enough? Fuel passes 3/27 at reactor and shakeum test shows clear water after bio and water settle out? Is there a fuel quality test I'm missing?

I have to comment on this. I joined this site in 2007 and this weekend I'm going to make my FIRST 25 gallon batch. I sold my avalanche to get back to a diesel(F-250), because I do renovations and repairs to houses. The avalanche was a great truck but not for my needs. I did collect things for an appleseed, wash tank, pumps .... so the money is spread out over that time, a lot of it was free or given to me when I told my suppliers and customers what I was going to do with it(make BD). I did buy the back iron pipe over the past few weeks.
My point is I'm going to make (BD) because I can. It helps the environment. And also to help promote my business, as I am currently working on my LEED certification for green building. I compare the saving on making BD like installing energy efficient windows. I cost savings are there, it just takes time. Most of my costumers tell my they can feel the difference in the home, after an install. I think I will fell the difference also. My savings starts this weekend!

Clean and green I also hope you and I are both wrong in the future you typed out. I don't think so but I dang sure hope so. This country can no longer operate the way we were operating, it has to change. Not only the way we view power but the way we help the world. Right now the world hates us, a lot anyways. Even our allies look down on us. But what kills me is they can only see as far as one dollar can spend. Meaning they have no clue if we fail the world will suffer terribly. The billions we spend outsode of this country will stop and the world will collapse around them as well. Take the two contries above and below. Mexico for one will absolutely be devistated if the United States fell today. They spend almost nothing on defense because they don't have to, we pay for it and they recieve protection simply by attrition. Same as Canada. We spend trillions on defense. They spend money on socialized medicine. Every Canadian I talk too talks about their medical system. Well it seems we could easily afford the same if we didn't spend trillions on defense. Canada whether they admit it or not enjoys a very safe life without spending what the US spends on defense because they recieve protection from the US by attrition. Never would the US allow any country to invade Canada or Mexico for the mere fact of strategic defense. They get to sit back and enjoy what we pay for. I didn't really mind it until I read about other countries pointing the fingers at us, telling everyone we are the bad guys who drive to the mailbox because we are too lazy. It is easy to sit at the bottom of the mountain and blame the top for being too high. I say they should climb that mountian before they have the right say anything about it.

The main reason I got into bio diesel was what I mentioned just now. I also got into it becasue I have family in a war right now. I don't like sending my money to the sand box. I like going out to the barn and brewing my own, knowing I am not a sheep following the next sheep in front of me. I and others on this forum are in the forefront of a changing world. We are doing something about it. We like what we do and we like to talk about it. If I were doing it for a money savings I would have been a fool. I work what we call extra jobs. Most of which are sitting on my butt watching a whatever so whatever doesn't get stolen. These jobs pay so well I could easily take one more job a week to pay for $5.00 a gallon fuel. I would have been way ahead of the game. So you asked I will say, if your in it for only a savings it isn't worth it. If your in it to be a leader in the changing of the way we conduct business then jump in and enjoy the ride.

Besid