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Pine wood chips/ sawdust for dry wash.

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April 04, 2014, 09:02 PM
Yuka
Pine wood chips/ sawdust for dry wash.
This is what happens when i shake the sample.


April 04, 2014, 09:08 PM
Yuka
This is the picture i really dont know whats going on.

From right to left.

Right is water shake test before going in to the drum.
Middle is water shake test after 48 hrs of residence.
Left is water shake +100 hrs after of residence in the wood chip barrel.

Middle and left samples where taken from the drain bottom of the wood chip drum.
In both i see little droplets in the bio. Why is that?

Left sample also has a middle layer that is either wood resin or soap, since woodchips have been soaking in demethed bio more than 1 week.

Should i drain a little more, and start slow upflow?


April 05, 2014, 12:39 AM
Hamlin205
quote:
Originally posted by Hamlin205:
Quote : Yuka
Is this flow rate doing any good? Should i go slower?
Bio has been settling for a week after demteth. Quote:

After Demeth and settling do you see fallout that looks like pancake syrup ?
If you do then your demeth process is working. Once the MEH is gone
there is nothing to hang on to and it drops right out.


Eduardo:
Can't see too much detail.
The soap appeared to be gone after the shavings (the wash water was
clear) not certain what you are seeing in the other samples.
Please see above and advise. After the demeth and settle
did you drain off the bottom ?
regards
Tom


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April 05, 2014, 12:58 AM
Yuka
I saw that little syrup.
I didnt drain it out.

The bio that has milky white water is clear. (Right sample)
The other 2 samples even tho the water is almost crystal clear the bio layer seems to hold on to something. I see small drops like unsettled water in the bio. Like water isnt separating correctly after the water shake test.
April 07, 2014, 11:11 AM
Yuka
Any help?

Thanks!!!
April 07, 2014, 02:37 PM
Jon Heron
quote:
Should i drain a little more, and start slow upflow?

Yep, thats what I would do.
I have seen the droplet thing you mentioned above on shakemup tests before, I wouldn't worry about it...
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
April 08, 2014, 01:31 PM
Yuka
Thanks Jon,
So we did the change to the poly drum and good news, no dripping or leaking at all.

We drained a little from the bottom , and change to upflow.
And i gotta say im really satisfied with the results, even using pine shavings.
I almost didnt drain any resin and no glycerin at all.

My soap (KOH) it was around 100-150 ppm. Before the woodchips it was un almost 2000ppm.
Meaning we are almost at ASTM.

This is gonna make my Purolite last forever!!!

Some pics;

1.- this is the sample from the top.


April 08, 2014, 01:32 PM
Yuka
Same sample but in lab tube.


April 08, 2014, 01:34 PM
Yuka
Water shake test.

I always do heavy water shakes, to really see how many contaminants the bio really has.
I only took a pic of the water shake (mayo) before settling.

After this i couldnt believe it. Water is crystal clear with really small emultion droplets in it.


April 08, 2014, 01:38 PM
Yuka
This is how we put the shavings and sawdust in the drums.
We use a fiber media that keeps all the dust and shavings in it. So we dont have any type of wood particles in the bio.

After the upflow we use a 10 micron filter anyway to remove anything that could clog the system.
Then we use the resin, 2 micron biotek hydroglass as a polisher.

And for fuel dispensing we use a 10 micron Biodiesel Golden Rod.


April 09, 2014, 03:35 PM
Yuka
+1500 gals of WVO! Smile


April 09, 2014, 05:06 PM
Yuka
Titration was 4 KOH.
We are gettin' great results with single stage, but only if we introduce the methoxide really slow.
In 40 gal batches we use 8 gal of methanol and it usually takes 30-45 minutes for the methoxide to get in while reacting. Wink



This picture is from today, just finish with the ion exchange resin.
We made some really good Biodiesel!!!! Smile


April 09, 2014, 11:48 PM
Legal Eagle
A slow introduction of methoxide is preferable to doing it fast. It gives time for proper mixing to occur which helps in achieving a complete reaction.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


April 11, 2014, 03:42 PM
Jon Heron
Looken good Yuka!
quote:

My soap (KOH) it was around 100-150 ppm. Before the woodchips it was un almost 2000ppm.

I think the ASTM max soap number is 200PPM?
I add the methoxide in ahead of the pump and use vacuum to assist, while adding it the stream is split between a home made eductor that shoots strait into the bottom of the tank as well as the top pipe which blasts the stream off the back wall of the reactor. It takes about 15~30 minutes to add around 300 litres and the batch will pass 3/27 in about 15 minutes after adding it all, I let it go for 30 minutes just to be safe then start recovering. Smile
Here is a pic inside my reactor of the eductor nozzle, directly above it is the main input pipe which is just above the liquid level when its full.


Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
April 11, 2014, 10:50 PM
Yuka
Looks good JON great assembly, thanks for sharing!!

Do you do whole batch demeth?

I think with KOH soap levels should be around he 60's ppm and NaOH around 40'ppm.

By the way been using B50-B100 in my Nissan diƩsel Pickup, its a common rail tdi 2.5 with dpf.
Almost 18,000 miles men an no issue at all.
Im loving it!

Im designing a methanol recovery unit. Ill post some pics next week.
Have a good weekend!

Eduardo G
April 16, 2014, 08:42 AM
Jon Heron
Yep, I do WBD exclusively now, its the most efficient way to go IMO.
Keep up the good work Yuka!
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
April 16, 2014, 09:06 AM
Yuka
Assuming you use 20% of methanol. Lets say 20 liters in every 100 liter batch.
And the stechiometric point is around 12.5-14%, when is safe to stop recovering methanol to avoid any back reaction.

I was reading about WBD and sounds interesting since i can do the recovery right after reaction, taking advantage of the already high temprature.

Cheers mate!

Eduardo G.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Yuka,
April 16, 2014, 03:33 PM
Jon Heron
I used to be very careful to not exceed the stoich as well as neutralize the batch with acid via GL's push/pull method but dont bother with any of it any more and still get the same results.
Once the methanol flow slows to a drip from the condenser I shut it down and drain. I then bubble dry air through the tote of hot fuel overnight to drive off any remaining methanol. By the next morning when I shut off hte bubbler the fuel is crystal clear already...
I stopped worrying about the stoich when I moved to my big reactor. I add one fresh drum of methanol and then whatever I have recovered from the previous batch (100~150L approx) so I never know exactly how much methanol is in there to calculate the stoich...
To date, I have never seen any kind of a back reaction whatsoever, testing with phlip tests. I would love to get a batch of my fuel ASTM tested just out of curiosity but at this point its a moot point as I have around 100,000km on my Duramax common rail without any fuel issues at all, not to mention my tractor, ford 6.9, shop furnace and new house boiler all happily ticking away on my homebrew...
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
April 16, 2014, 04:16 PM
Yuka
Thanks JON!
Really complete post, im building a distiller to recover the methanol, so i will do it keeping in mind WBD!!!
How long does the glycerol takes to settle after the WBD!!

Again thanks for the info my bro!

Eduardo G.
Smile
April 18, 2014, 10:02 AM
Jon Heron
quote:
How long does the glycerol takes to settle after the WBD!!

Not long, once the methanol is out the glycerin settles out immediately.
For good measure I let it settle for about half an hour then drain, on my big reactor.
If you have a small drain valve you could probably start draining right away, thats what I did with my old processor, it had only 3/4" plumbing...
KOH is more forgiving, you can let it settle as long as you want, if your using NAOH I would not let it settle for than 1/2 an hour.
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer