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Pine wood chips/ sawdust for dry wash.

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http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5521001332/m/6317016873

March 11, 2014, 10:42 PM
Yuka
Pine wood chips/ sawdust for dry wash.
Please some advice.

In my town i can only get pine woodchips and sawdust.
I have two 55 gal drums. Gravity fed.
2/3 filled is Ok?
What do you recommend for preparing the pine woodchips set?
Let Biodiesel set over night and drain the resin after?
What to do with that resin stuff is still good for another batch?
Also, i have an issue. Town is ver hot always 95F.

Im worried about the internal combustion issue.
What do you recommend? Always keep bio on te drum?
Keep it with the close lid and the vent closed?

Thanks in advance.
Eduardo G
March 12, 2014, 12:00 AM
WesleyB
I believe the small wood chips swell, increase in volume, when they soak in biodiesel long enough.
March 12, 2014, 07:51 AM
Jon Heron
Yuka,
I did some testing with pine and spruce and posted the results here a awhile back http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...=679107252#679107252
I would recommend you let them soak for at least a week in biodiesel. Then run them downflow till the fuel runs clean, check it with shakemup tests. Then switch to upflow, the resin and soap settles to the bottom of the chips so upflow is the way to go... In the test linked to above I also dissolved a chunk of spruce resin into some bio, while it will mix with the bio it does settle out to the bottom rather quickly.
Keep the chips covered in fuel and the drums sealed at all times and combustion wont be an issue.
How big are your batches?
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
March 12, 2014, 10:56 AM
Yuka
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Heron:
Yuka,
I did some testing with pine and spruce and posted the results here a awhile back http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...=679107252#679107252
I would recommend you let them soak for at least a week in biodiesel. Then run them downflow till the fuel runs clean, check it with shakemup tests. Then switch to upflow, the resin and soap settles to the bottom of the chips so upflow is the way to go... In the test linked to above I also dissolved a chunk of spruce resin into some bio, while it will mix with the bio it does settle out to the bottom rather quickly.
Keep the chips covered in fuel and the drums sealed at all times and combustion wont be an issue.
How big are your batches?
Cheers,
Jon


Thanks Jon.
I do two 40 gal batches at the same time.
I have two 55 gal drums.
I am gravity feeding from a Tote thats on the top, that stores demethed bio to the drums.

Upflow after washing the wood?
Have a good day!
Eduardo G
March 12, 2014, 04:07 PM
Jon Heron
NP.
One drum is all you need, fill it as full as you can and tamp it all in there with a board before putting the lid on.
If your totes up in the air already you will have no problem gravity feeding through the drum in an upflow configuration, it takes 0 pressure for the fuel to go through the drum in an upflow in my experience, the slower the better.
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
March 12, 2014, 09:38 PM
Yuka
My men!!!!
Thanks!!

I would give it a try on Monday. And post some pictures.
Again thanks.

So for preparing the chips let the bio settle as long as i can. Then drain it from the top so the resin stays on the bottom.
Then other batches slow upflow?
One pass?

Thanks.
Eduardo.
March 13, 2014, 04:14 PM
Jon Heron
quote:
So for preparing the chips let the bio settle as long as i can. Then drain it from the top so the resin stays on the bottom.
Then other batches slow upflow?

No, Drain it from the bottom so the resin comes out, keep flushing fuel through till it comes out clear. Then switch to upflow.
On one of my setups I used a 3/8 hose that goes to the bottom of the drum, thats the fuel input, then the fuel passes up through the chips and out the top, simple and works great.
Here is the fittings I used on my chilled upflow:

The 3/8" copper pipe is the fuel input, it passes through the 1/2" fitting into the top of the drum where I have a push on sharkbite pex coupling where the 3/8" hose is conected,


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
March 14, 2014, 01:24 PM
andyman
hey jon did you try washing with methanol?
March 14, 2014, 04:07 PM
Jon Heron
Nope, I find biodiesel works fine and its safer and cheaper so I saw no reason to even try methanol. Also any methanol remaining in the chips afterwords would be counter productive to removing the soap from the biodiesel.
Some folks reprocess the biodiesel they use for washing the chips before using it but I just add it to my shop furnace and boiler fuel drum and its been working without issue there for the last 3 or 4 years now.
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
March 14, 2014, 06:10 PM
Yuka
Next week ill post some pics of my whole process, and the wood chip drum.
To see if everything is OK and you can give me some advice.

Thanks Jon.
Have a good one.

Eduardo G.
March 17, 2014, 08:30 AM
andyman
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Heron:
Nope, I find biodiesel works fine and its safer and cheaper so I saw no reason to even try methanol. Also any methanol remaining in the chips afterwords would be counter productive to removing the soap from the biodiesel.
Some folks reprocess the biodiesel they use for washing the chips before using it but I just add it to my shop furnace and boiler fuel drum and its been working without issue there for the last 3 or 4 years now.
Cheers,
Jon


well i don't know if it's cheaper. methanol is recovered and reused so no waste there (a few litres would be "lost"). i guess if you are paying for heating oil, then no waste there either (other than the difference between the price of road fuel and heating oil).

it's my understanding that methanol (in biodiesel) has little effect on soap removal efficiency of wood chips. no personal experience on that, but that has been reported by others.

using biodiesel would certainly be easier. are you using clean or raw fuel for this?
March 17, 2014, 08:51 AM
Jon Heron
I am using demethed and settled biodiesel for preparing the chips.
Methanol has everything to do with soap removal, even a small amount will keep large amounts of soap in solution with the biodiesel. The chips still work with raw fuel and will still remove soap, just not nearly as well as without methanol.
Adding methanol to the chips is counter productive from any angle I look at it, costs, hazards, soap removal, etc. and the methanol likely does not remove the same contaminates from the chips as the biodiesel does, which is what we are trying to clean in the first place...
My fuel is methanol free and crystal clear before it hits the chips, the chips last for thousands of gallons of fuel before needing a change. I have never reached the point where I was getting soapy fuel out of the chips (once I switched to upflow that is) so I change my chips out once a year whether they need it or not.
Cheers,
Jon


___________________________

Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
March 17, 2014, 12:57 PM
Legal Eagle
The whole principle of dry wash is possible only with the methanol being removed as this is what allows the residual soaps to remain in solution. This was conclusively proven by Graham Laming in his Eco System set up. Of course Graham's method is a much longer process as it requires time for the soaps to drop out of solution naturally by gravity after demething the fuel. The idea of a dry wash system if really one of purification after demthing; jumping the gun if you will on the process by forcing the dry media to do the soap extraction rather than allowing time and gravity to do it. And with the methanol removed this permits the media to remove soaps.

Leaving methanol in the fuel mix allows soaps to remain in solution and as such will allow soaps to get by the wood chips and perhaps even the resin systems.

In my case I demeth, settle a couple days and then run the fuel through a 200L drum of chips and then both a lead and lag tank or Purolite PD206 followed by a 2 micron fuel can by CATerpillar. I don't have fuel problems other than the usual filter plugging due to the cleaning action of the B100.

HTH



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


March 17, 2014, 01:12 PM
Yuka
Thanks LE.
I sent you an email before posting.
Hope you're doing OK.

Eduardo Giron
March 22, 2014, 07:32 PM
Yuka
I set my wood chips and sawdust drum.

Its shavings on the bottom, sawdust in the middle and shavings on top.
I gravity feed it thru the bottom and clean bio comes off top. That way the drum is always full and we can avoid spontaneous combustion.

On the pic you can see i feed the raw bio from the bottom left and full the drum to prepare it.
The on the right bottom its the drain pipe, for the shavings resin.
On top in have a 1" where the bio goes out thru another Tote for ion exchnage resin treatment.

They are pine shavings,

1.- How long should i let the demethed raw bio settle in the drum for the chips to be ready and settle the resin?
2.- whats the recomended flow rate thru the chips once they're ready? Im planning only doing one pass, because i already got the Purolite system.

Thanks.
Eduardo G.

Wood chip drum

March 22, 2014, 07:33 PM
Yuka
Sawdust pic


March 22, 2014, 07:37 PM
Yuka
Top shavings.
Im using a sock type filtering.

I have also some little sock filters for the 1" niples for in and out.
What do you think?


March 22, 2014, 07:42 PM
Yuka
The left bottom drum i use for methanol evaporation of the bio.
The left middle drum is the one that has the shavings in, after one pass it goes thru the bottom Tote on the right.
The upper Tote is raw demethed bio.

I recirculate the bio thru Purolite canisters in to the Tote for about 3 hours after the shavings.

At least thats the idea as Ive never use shavings before.

Please some advice.
Have a great weekend everyone.

Eduardo G


March 22, 2014, 07:46 PM
Yuka
Almost done in the shop.

I had a bad fall today from one of the middle Racks!
Any ideas or questions will be well appreciated and answered.

Eduardo G


March 22, 2014, 08:06 PM
Yuka
Demeth at 72C