1) So I have spent several hours reading on shavings type to use. The general idea is hardwood is better. But how well does fir work? We have a horse stable and an endless supply of fire shavings. So how much difference does it really make? Is it just less clear or will their be effects on the diesel engine.

2) I have the standard cheapo clearwater pump in the processer. If I divert part of the biodiesel into the dry wash towers and part of it back into the processer can I just use this as my metering pump? Basically I'm just metering myself by cracking the valves and sending biodiesel in two different directions.

3) Barrel tower. I'm thinking about a tower design. I'm thinking I'll go with the cornelius keg design because I can get these. But since I have access to so many shavings what about just using a 55 gallon barrel, and welding fittings into that basically making it a tower? I have too many of these lying around.

Thank you

There is an article coming up in Biodiesel Smarter that will answer many of your questions.

quote:

3) Barrel tower. I'm thinking about a tower design. I'm thinking I'll go with the cornelius keg design because I can get these. But since I have access to so many shavings what about just using a 55 gallon barrel, and welding fittings into that basically making it a tower? I have too many of these lying around.

I think weldshop and maybe fabricator are using 55 gallon drums for filtering through wood shavings. You really only need to fill the barrel about 1/3 to 1/2 full of shavings and then fill the drum up with bio. Let is sit in the bio for some time (whatever works for you) then slowly trickle the bio out into another container. Metering pumps are good for resin towers, but seem to be overkill for wood shavings.

If you have the space, you could make several batches and let them sit for a couple of weeks and most of the soap will drop out of the demethed bio. Pull from the oldest batch for filtering through wood shavings or just a plain filter and into your vehicle.

I have been using shavings in various configurations since last June -- a little over a year now. I have only used hardwood.

HTH

quote:

I think weldshop and maybe fabricator are using 55 gallon drums for filtering through wood shavings.

Not me. I've been following the discussions on wood chips since it started with the comparison to Eco2Pure.

I went as far as building a column from 6" pvc and $50 in fittings for it.

You can see it here. In the top/ out the top. Like a water softener unit.


But I could never find a steady source of hardwood. So I haven't committed to the process, yet.
The farm store has all kinds of bedding shavings, but I want to see if there is a type that is easily obtainable and cheap that works.

Now, I demeth, settle and filter in the old waterwash system. I have bio that is 2 weeks+ old and is now passing a clear water shake up test.

I just made a resin tower prototype last weekend and will try Purolite thru it.



It's all new to me, I want to stop water washing. But I hope this helps someone.

Brian

Here's the skinny; as for resin a hard wood chip tower with an in/out on top with a central reverse flow tube will work very well as long as it is properly screened at the bottom so media doesn't migrate.

Unlike resin the chip tower must be filled to the top or very close thereto and tapped down a bit. After which several beds worth of methanol must be run through it to remove any wood resins (the methanol can be used in a follow up batch. Then the chips must be flushed with finished biodiesel, again several beds worth until it runs crystal clear (the biodiesel must then be reprocessed). This is the same whether using a tower or a drum; fill 'em up. When you start out with it you must then have a full tower/drum of clean biodiesel which will exchange withthe fresh stuff coming in.

Resins only need be barely covered before they are ready for use, not so with wood chips. The ultimate, IMO, would be to set up a chip drum followed by resin beds and finalised using a small micron can type fuel filter (I use a CAT 2 micron absolute can). You can be guarenteed ASTM quality with this type of set up if all the other parameters are followed.

HTH

Great advise! Thanks Legal Eagle.

I'm still open to hardwood process. 'Still seeking the steady source.

I figured my pvc thing was too small. Diameter wise.

I've uded Fir planer shavings with good success. Both removing water and removing soap from bio following static water washes.

If you have any furniture making places near by give 'em a visit. Often if they know what you are up to they'll happily set aside the shavings from their hard wood cabinets ect.

What I gave you above is more than passing advice, the method has been tried and proven on a commercial level (that's what the Biodiesel Smarter article is based upon) with lab tests along the way to monitor the process. 4 drums of chips have processed 50,000 litres (not a typo, fifty thousand) exclusive of using any water at all; no prewash/resin either, just chips.

I have been using chips for two 250 gallon batches and now two 300 gallon batches, I switched to naoh because results were not good with koh, the first three batches were with red oak shavings.
My jerry rigged column is just a 55 gallon drum fed with a little blue pump on full blast, it's just down flow, in the top, gravity out the bottom.
The red oak batches were below 40 ppm in two or three passes, this last batch is pine/fir shavings and it is down to 112ppm in three or four passes and is not falling any lower, it looks like fir is not as good as oak, but it's not all bad either.
I fill the drum to the top then stomp it down and fill it again and repeat until it wont take any more, the first few gallons out of the drum will be cloudy but it clears up pretty fast.
Don't ask a lot of egg head chemistry stuff because I can't answer it, all I know is it appears to work and it beats the hell out of water washing.

Fabricator,
Were the chips you used from kiln dried lumber?
Do you do any type of methanol flush on the chips prior to use?
Thanks,

Jon

Fab,
How do you prevent the blockage effect of the swelling shavings?
Is your barrel draining through one small port in the bottom?
Come on give it to us.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Heron:
Fabricator,
Were the chips you used from kiln dried lumber?
Do you do any type of methanol flush on the chips prior to use?
Thanks,

Jon

The shavings have only been air dried, but it's been about three years, and no, I dont flush with anything.

quote:

Originally posted by Double D:
Fab,
How do you prevent the blockage effect of the swelling shavings?
Is your barrel draining through one small port in the bottom?
Come on give it to us.

There isn't much swelling and no blockage as far as I know, 3/4" goes in and out.

quote:

Originally posted by Legal Eagle:
If you have any furniture making places near by give 'em a visit. Often if they know what you are up to they'll happily set aside the shavings from their hard wood cabinets ect.

What I gave you above is more than passing advice, the method has been tried and proven on a commercial level (that's what the Biodiesel Smarter article is based upon) with lab tests along the way to monitor the process. 4 drums of chips have processed 50,000 litres (not a typo, fifty thousand) exclusive of using any water at all; no prewash/resin either, just chips.

Legal do you know what size the shavings vessels are? Are they actual 55 gallon drums or something larger?

Thanks Fab!
I believe Legal is referring to These guy's who use 55 gallon drums with a screen in the bottom.
Jon

Thanks Jon, that is impressive, my chip life is no where near that, it is gard to tell in the pics, I wonder iof the drums are pulmned in series or paralel, it looks like they are down flow.
Anpther question is what is the head gasket made from? The common foam head gaskets swell and come apart and often leak badly, I am building some leak proof head clamps to fix this problem, if any actual pressure builds in the drum you will get a bio shower.

I noticed Legal said in your other thread that they are connected in series, 2 on top and 2 on the bottom and details some of the screen setup in the bottom.
Good points on the lousy gaskets on the head, I was planning on making an upflow system with a gasketed drum... Hmmm... Do you think the clamp is the problem or just the rubber gasket? I could make a new gasket out of cardboard pretty easy I bet...
Whats your plan for the 'leak proof head clamps'?
I can get 55 gallon HDPE olive drums with a screw on head for $12.00 but the head is only about 16" across. How hard is it get the chips out when they are done?
Just thinking out loud here...
Jon

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Heron:
I noticed Legal said in your other thread that they are connected in series, 2 on top and 2 on the bottom and details some of the screen setup in the bottom.
Good points on the lousy gaskets on the head, I was planning on making an upflow system with a gasketed drum... Hmmm... Do you think the clamp is the problem or just the rubber gasket? I could make a new gasket out of cardboard pretty easy I bet...
Whats your plan for the 'leak proof head clamps'?
I can get 55 gallon HDPE olive drums with a screw on head for $12.00 but the head is only about 16" across. How hard is it get the chips out when they are done?
Just thinking out loud here...
Jon

My current plan changed today because of the unavailability of a good gasket for steel drums, the new plan is to go with the HDPE plastic drums with a screw on lid, they will be much easier to make a good gasket for if they leak, the shavings come come out pretty easy after they are spent, sometimes they just need a little agitation with a poker to coax em out, I have an overhead crane so I just invert em and whack em a couple times and it all falls out, I'll be making my own bulkhead fittings from delrin or nylon.

The heavy white gasket used for chemical drums holds up great to biodiesel. I have this on my settling tank where I send the just finished reaction,so it is hot methanol ladden biodiesel going in there. The drum is a 5 year old international grade food drum with liner equipped with one of these gaskets and both are holding up perfectly.

And yes, RolfQuo is what I was referencing. It is two sets of four; 2 top,2 bottom (twice) fed using just under 5psi from an air pump. There is no appreciable pressure build up as it is dissipated in the flow rate. Should a line become blocked and pressure build the valve would pop releasing the pressure. The system also uses a control to be able to circulate the biodiesel should tests show the soap content unacceptable after one pass. Anything 800ppm and under gets to zero after one pass and full flow speed. They have a capcity of 35,000Lt's weekly using this set up.

Rolfs drums look like they have a clamp made of square tubing and all thread rod to hold them straight down instead of just the bolt lock clamping ring.