BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Dry Washing Biodiesel    Dry wash with wood chips
Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 15

Moderators: The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Dry wash with wood chips
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
Format seems a little off.

Fuel Volume (gallons)= Soap (ppm)

1 = 22
5 = 24
10 = 35
30 = 30
50 = 70
 
Registered: January 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tpastrama:
Good luck w/ sawdust:

After running an initial test involving 25 lbs. of sawdust, not wood chips, here are the results:

Fuel Volume (gallons) Soap (ppm)
1 22
5 24
10 35
30 30
50 70

Our initial soap tested at 1622 ppm. This was a finer sawdust collected from our carpentry floor shop. The glycerin initially tested at .10. After passing through the sawdust it dropped out to .00 on all 4 tests.

Flow rate is rather slow, gallon/hour +- at gravity feed. We used a fine filter (.22 micron) on output.

Not a bad way to go for the small producer.
Good luck!


This is a great data point. I have not weighed the chips I am using, but I bet I have nowhere near 25 lbs. In the two Corny kegs, I would guess there's perhaps 5 lbs. I don't pack it in.


George Reiswig
North by Northwest Expedition
1983 Mercedes 416 Doka
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
http://www.4x4wire.com/mercedes/nnw/intro.htm
 
Registered: December 26, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Wood chips are nothing new and work well for taking the soap out of biodiesel. Hardwood bark and chips work the best. You people try the flow thru process and that uses a lot of energy if you are using a pump. Give this a try. Fill a vat full of chips put the bio into it and let it set for an hour or two. filter it out. Soap gone. simple. Good luck.
 
Registered: January 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Has anyone ever tried ASPEN wood. This is a hard wood and can be bought through farm supply stores. It is used as bedding for stalls. I tried it and got a lot of soap during shake test. I am trying to figure out if I am doing something wrong or if the wood is just not suitable....

Thanks
Jim
 
Registered: December 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I am not sure why Aspen wouldn't work for filtering BD. The only wood shavings that I have used thus far have been from furniture grade wood i.e. kiln dried wood that has been run through a planer, jointer or shaper. The shavings are usually disposed of by throwing them in the dumpster.
 
Location: Chambodia | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tilt1:
Wood chips are nothing new and work well for taking the soap out of biodiesel. Hardwood bark and chips work the best. You people try the flow thru process and that uses a lot of energy if you are using a pump. Give this a try. Fill a vat full of chips put the bio into it and let it set for an hour or two. filter it out. Soap gone. simple. Good luck.

Hi Tilt, thats the way I'm going too. I'm setting up a big tank which I'm going to use to stir the sawdust into the biodiesel in. I'm going to have the tap at the bottom connected to a reverse osmosis filter lying horizontally in the bottom of the tank. I'm finding sawdust is much better than shavings and chips, due to the surface area. After settling its just a case of draining the biodiesel under gravity into a long bath shaped tank I have for the purpose.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Hardwood bark and chips work the best. You people try the flow thru process and that uses a lot of energy if you are using a pump. Give this a try. Fill a vat full of chips put the bio into it and let it set for an hour or two. filter it out. Soap gone. simple. Good luck.


Thanks for the suggestion.

Did you do any testing to determine that chips and bark work best? What percent bark do you like? Does the wood need to be kiln dried?

Does the fuel need to cool first? When you say soap gone, did you test? Shakem-up? Titration? How much wood and bark for how much fuel?


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Just a couple of questions?
Does anybody know why this works, and does much bio get absorbed by the wood.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The wood doesnt really absorb much biodiesel at all. You can imagine how wood shavings and sawdust would expand by absorbing water, but there isnt much expansion with biodiesel, and it drains freely.

Its easy to compare... half-fill two glasses with sawdust and add biodiesel to one and water to the other and see the diference.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I gave it a try, tho I pumped the biodiesel out since I havent got my long low tank set up yet for gravity draining:

Transfered a 100L batch of raw biodiesel to my mixing tank, stirred in about 6 or 7 litres of hardwood - mostly mahogany - sawdust, stirred every 10 or 15 minutes and drained after half an hour - hey presto very clean biodiesel. The shake-up water is crystal clear no matter how long its shaken.

This is quick easy and cheap washing, men.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Our setup recently included a wood shaving filter. we are using a 15 or 20 gallon open top barrel with lots of small holes drilled in the bottom. we then set the drum on top of one of our tanks, then pump the bio into the top of the shavings. The tank is set up with a barrel filter on top for the shaving filter to set on. the barrel filter has some rod welded on it so it sits above the barrel screen. the screen is important, as it catches any sawdust that escapes the barrel.
I have found that it works best doing the initial filter when the bio is hot after de-mething, then toss those shavings. reload the barrel with fresh shavings, let the bio cool, then recirculate for about 4 hours. we are then reusing the 2nd batch of shavings to do the intial filtering on the next batch of bio.

the soaps have been going from 2400 or so, down to 70. we are using poplar shavings at the moment that have had the fines removed. this is working so well, we are going to stop cetrifuging our finished fuel, and go back to 1 micron filters. the fuge isn't getting enough gunk at the end to waste the time.
The barrel setup works well for us, we are currently doing 80 gallon batches. It takes about 5 minutes to pump 80 gallons through, then just let it drain. we lose about a gallon to the shavings, but it is fast, and cheap! I'm sure our setup will work on a smaller or larger scale. just size the barrel accordingly. I'll try to post some pics soon, our shop is looking less like home brewing, and more like a refinery. I think we would lose less than a gallon of fuel, if the filter barrel were left to drain overnight. Anyone have problems with spontaneous cobustion yet?

I just got a call this morning from my biodiesel partner, and he said that the shavings from last night's batch did start to smolder. He said it filled the shop with smoke. I guess it was worth leaving a few drips on the floor to carry the setup outside.

I don't know which is more dangerous, the hot water heating elements, or the shavings, or the methanol, or the lye, or the very slick puddles of oil on the floor...

This forum makes my eyes hurt from too much reading...

richard


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi richard, can you give more details about the shavings catching fire? Are you talking about spontaneous combustion?
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Yep, It caught on fire all on it's own. we had a 20 gallon barrel filled nearly to the top with shavings. we emptied the demeth tank pretty hot (194 F), it filtered through easily, then we let it drain for about 4 hours. last two hours of drain time were unattended. when my partner came back in, the garage had a little smoke in it, and the filter barrel sitting on top of the 80 gallons of biodiesel was smoldering.
he dug into it a bit, and found a hockey puck sized area of burned shavings. he tossed that, and set it out by the road away from the house. he then went to bed, when I went past in the morning, the barrel was burning nice steady flames, and had consumed nearly all of the wood chips.
We had been worried about the spontanious combustion issue, and had been pretty good about setting the barrels outside. we found if we let the barrels drain a while, we lost less biodiesel.
We have a new dedicated shed for just biodiesel production in the works, but had to wait for better weather in order to pour concrete. when we get moved in, a few of our hazards will be eliminated.
We decided today, not to repaint the burned up barrel, it will remind us to pay attention. I'll try to post some pictures soon.

Richard


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Thanks for that Richard. I have a couple of resin towers with spent shavings still in them, so I'll have to look into that. Cheers.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
After seeing how completely this stuff burned, there is no way I would have a set up that was hard plumbed into my process. the shavings are definitely the way to go as far as soap removal, but as with any of this stuff, you have to be careful.
Some of the other posts I have read talk about retty low flows. I think we get around this by having a big diameter of shavings.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
RoadRunner,

What was the ambient air temperature when the shavings started smoldering? Perhaps the heat buildup was due to filtering hot BD. My BD is usually near room temperature when I filter.

I have been using wood shavings for about 10 months now and I have never seen anything close to spontaneous combustion. Even with oily shop rags in the middle of the summer. Of course my shop is insulated and in a shaded area of the property. It hardly gets as high as 80 degrees.
 
Location: Chambodia | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
bio was really hot, (194) ambient air was only 65. funny thing is, after we dug out the smoldering spot, we set it outside, and the air temp that night was only 28 F. next morning, it was on fire, not smoldering. I'm guessing the hot oil got the ball rolling, and we are dealing with a large lolume of shavings. I've seen large stockpiles of sawdust go up in smoke at sawmills, so I guess it would be similar. We haven't had any trouble yet with any shavings that have been used with cold bio yet, but i am not taking any chances. this is still worth fooling with, but it would be nice not to have to clean the barrel.


powering
2 bobcats, an excavator, and a ventrac mower. looking for a diesel weedeater!
 
Location: morgantown wv | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Shouldn't it be safe as long as the shavings are submerged in oil? The problem with spontaneous combustion should only present itself once that oil is removed and air can get to the shavings.

Thanks for confirming this (or not), Hugh.
 
Registered: March 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I seriously doubt any problem with wood shavings submerged in oil unless someone struck a match to it. Eek

quote:
I've seen large stockpiles of sawdust go up in smoke at sawmills


I have also heard of sawdust being the fuel for cabinet shop fires, I am not clear what causes the ignition unless it is outside and decompsosing creating a lot of heat internally.

I have witnessed a small shop fire from sawdust in a dust collector, but the catalyst for the fire was an extremely hot router bit on a CNC Router. That was due to operator stupidity. Cutting way to slow. It actually set the MDF spoilboard on fire. Now that's a burning odor you don't want to smell. Big Grin
 
Location: Chambodia | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
This sound very similar to a Hay or Straw fire, I used to be a Fireman and have been to many a "stack" fire ( buggers to put out ), thanks for the warning. Eek
 
Location: Derbyshire UK | Registered: November 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 15 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Dry Washing Biodiesel    Dry wash with wood chips

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014