BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Dry Washing Biodiesel    Dry wash with wood chips
Page 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15

Moderators: The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Dry wash with wood chips
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
Discoloration.
I have built a wood chip filter out of a 55 gal drum. It definitely takes the soap out but now the bio is not near as clear as when it went in. I am runnibg my second 150l batch through the chips and it is still discolored(cloudy) Could this be the resin? I am also filtering it through a 1 micron filter with no change.

Any thoughts?
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Not resin - the first lot I send thru the sawdust which leaches out the resin is always crystal clear. I would suggest that either the wood is damp or that its been treated with something.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Jehu,
It does look like it is damp fuel. But we were pretty sure that the oak mulch was dry. We will discard that batch and try again. We will spread out our next batch of mulch on a tarp for a day to make sure it is dry. Would you suggest pretreating the mulch with methanol first? Wouldn't the alcohol purge any moisture in the mulch?
Very frustrating! Built a kick ass system and had high hopes! I will guess that the moisture will keep the soap count high?
Thanks for your insight!
Jeff
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
After I posted my last we took a look at our stored mulch and it was damp in the container! Hopefully problem solved!
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I agree with Jehu that its highly doubtful its resin. Water is the most likely culprit. Try to circulate this batch with a pump for an hour or two in an open barrel and see if it clears up. As long as its not very humid out, it will dry. If its not that, did this batch pass 27/3? I use shredded redwood bark and in 2 systems, one for me and another for a friend and that wood is not treated and he had this problem when he used wet recycled methanol and it didn't pass a 27/3 but ran it through the wood chip filter anyway. It could be some other reaction with the wood chips and the mono/di/and tri glycerides left over, but my guess is that the water which caused an incomplete reaction a is now clouding the bio.

Doug
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
• No need to throw that batch out just circulate it an open drum and it will dry well enough.
• Dry mulch is good.
• No need to soak in methanol. If you want, pre soak the mulch in bio to get the fines out so it won't clog screen in the barrel.

just a suggestion.
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
It was definitely wet mulch. Any suggestions how to store it? We had some stored in a plastic bag and some in a steel drum. Both containers were damp with condensation. We live in humid central Florida!
UGH!
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
If its sunny you can dry it fairly quickly in a greenhouse (dunno what you call them in the States) - put the shavings in a blanket or sheet suspended like a hammock and turn them every now and again. Another way is put it in jute sacks and hang it out in the breeze like clothes, giving it a shake-up once in a while.

PS - maybe the easiest way, which I just remembered I did once - if the wood isnt too bad the biodiesel will soon absorb all the dampness and become clear; then just dry the damp biodiesel, which is easier and quicker than drying the wood.

The shavings can be stored in any clip top drum, just like caustic.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Would the damp shavings prevent the soap from being absorbed efficiently?

Dried the shavings and gravity drained fuel through them. It tested at roughly 150ppm. We refilled it and will let it set overnite and retest tomorrow.

It was definitely the damp shavings that turned the color of the fuel.
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
150 ppm for wood chips only is great.
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member

posted Hide Post
An interview I did with RolfQuo Biodiesel (see link in sig line) noted that they pre-treat the chips with methnaol and then run biodiesel through them until clear.

Theirs is a mid sized commercial plant though, not personal like ours. I'm getting one of their 200L drum filters tomorow (yea!) to install before the lead/lag resin tanks and 2 micron CAT can.



** Biodiesel Glycerine Soap - The Guide
- on 5 continents helping people make & sell soap from the Biodiesel Glycerine.


 
Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ok, I think we got the kinks(most of them) out of our dry wash system. We were testing at first at about 120-150/ppm but we were using a green phenol. The pool supply told us that it was the same as the blue but when we tried blue the ppms dropped to about 60. We are running the wash through the oak mulch about 3 times and those are the results we are getting now.

One question, is "soap" the same as glycerin or are they 2 separate things? Do the wood chips remove glycerin as well if it is different?
Regards,
Jeff
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Different. But the woodchips are removing glycerin as well.

Are you using home made .01M HCL solution or lab stuff from Utah Bio/Nevada Bio (or similar)?

Doug
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We are using 0.1 hcl from a chemical supply company(store bought).
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
.01N HCL..My mistake!
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Got it. So where are you getting the Oak Mulch? Oak definitely seems to do the best job according to various posts. With Redwood bark, I am only able to get it to 150, then I use resin. I would love to be able to get the soap count lower.

Doug
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
We found a pallet manufacturer nearby. The "mulch" is much finer than chips through a chipper but a little bit more coarse than pure sawdust. It doesn't plug anything up either. We are slowly gravity filtering about 50 gallons at a time through a 55 gallon drum 3/4 full of mulch three time and we are testing between 60 and 100ppm soap. It is cleaner than when we were water washing.
 
Registered: December 18, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I also am very new to this washing process. What about using wood pellets for a pellet stove instead of sawdust or chips? There are so many people on here doing this sawdust washing process differently its confusing.

My one and only question is can you simply use woods chips, sawdust, or wood pellets to succesfully wash biodiesel and have it at a point that it can go in your tank afterwards? I understand it may take multiple washes.
 
Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Yes, no and maybe. Ok, I know that doesn't answer your question, but here is the low down. First is that certain sawdust does seem to work to filter out the soap. The sawdust that works best seems to be Red Oak. The next is certain hardwoods. The least effective is softwoods. Now, the size of the wood chips seems to an very important role in how effective they are. I tried smaller shavings from a planer (from a hardwood moulding shop) and found them ineffective. I think they were just too big and I have heard from some reliable sources that it is the finer stuff that really does the soap absorption.

Now for how pure is it to put into your tank. Well first I recommended getting a soap test setup which is basically Bromo Blue, .01 molar HCL and some 3 ml pipettes. Then you can test for soap content yourself. I think KOH spec for ATSM is 60ppm, so if you can get it to around 100ppm, you should be fine. The biggest problem you will have if you have excess soap in the bio is that your fuel filter will clog more often and the car will then sputter or refuse to start. But swap it out and then you will be good to go.

Doug
 
Location: Los Angeles | Registered: March 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BIOMAKER:
I also am very new to this washing process. What about using wood pellets for a pellet stove instead of sawdust or chips? There are so many people on here doing this sawdust washing process differently its confusing.

My one and only question is can you simply use woods chips, sawdust, or wood pellets to succesfully wash biodiesel and have it at a point that it can go in your tank afterwards? I understand it may take multiple washes.


Some people are using resin towers and pumping biodiesel thru the wood. This is doing it the hard way. Best to just let the biodiesel flow thru the wood by gravity - get a large drum and half fill it with sawdust - preferably hardwood. The only thing you need is some sort of filter set up inside the drum to stop the sawdust clogging up the tap - I use a large stainless steel car air filter.

Some people are doing multiple passes, but this is unnecessary - I've never done it and my biodiesel comes out clean first time. The biodiesel can be used right away if you filter to 5 mics to remove any fine sawdust thats been flushed out.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  Dry Washing Biodiesel    Dry wash with wood chips

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014