Ok sports fans, I got my columns together and am doing my first full scale run, we shall see what we shall see.

Here are some results the jar on the left has a 1/4 inch emulsion layer and the water has a slight bio tint to it, the jar on the right has no emulsion layer and the water is much clearer I can see my finger behind the jar, you cannot see anything through the other jar.

How much wood chips/shavings did you load into your towers?

They will each hold 8 gallons of liquid and they are filled to within about 6 inches from the top, probably around four five gallon pails each of red oak.

fabricator,

Nice columns, nice everything .

Ive kept the used sawdust from my intial trial and tried it with some unwashed biodiesel made from higher titrating oil (9, ie 5+4, which is high for me) and after only ten minutes the biodiesel passed a shake-up test while the untreated control is like mayonaise. I dont think we need keep posting pics -we know what it looks like now.

I'm expecting to get some oak sawdust from a distillers cooper this week. I'm still hoping to acquire some bark in the near future.

PS - just had a look at whats left in the glass; after about half an hour the biodiesel is almost clear - I can read thru it, whereas the untreated sample is opaque. I get the impression that the shavings has improved its absorption capability after sitting damp for so long. I would have no hesitation running on this stuff - very encouraging.

PPS - just poured the remains of the glass left sitting overnight (12 hours), and its crystal clear.

Fabricator,
Oak?
Chips, Shavings, other?
Methanol pretreated?
Flow rate?

Red oak shavings, not treated with methanol, about 1gpm, the results of my full scale run were very disappointing, I figured I would need to wash once, but that was not the case, I had a layer in between the bio and water that was strange, like thick milk, it was not an emulsion there was no bio in it.
I took a sample and mixed with glycerine and another and mixed with vinegar and they did nothing no separation at all, the one I mixed with vinegar turned into something resembling cottage cheese overnight, I have since washed about 8 times and the layer is gone but I have no idea what it was

fabricator,

1gpm sounds a little fast to me, but then again, you have a lot of distance to get through.

Not sure about the additional layer. I haven't seen that yet.

What about using charcoal? Not the kind for grilling but the left over from a fire, rinsed of course. Or for that matter using a charcoal filter like those used in whole house filters?

Jerry

Fabricator,
The good results I've had were only achieved when "pushing" the bio "through" the shavings. I use the word pushing loosly in this case since the pump I'm using is a fountain pump that won't generate any pressure to speak of. Compacting the shavings in the column achieved the best results, and also much slower flow rate than I can get using the valve on the pump itself. The outflow from my column in this manner is about 1 gallon every twenty minutes.
All the shavings I've used have been from kiln dried lumber.
-HTH-

-Dave-

Acquired some oak shavings today from a cooper and mixed some raw low-titrating biodiesel thru it. After sitting for about half an hour no trace of soap/emulsion in the shakem-up, which was done vigorously.. The water is very clear with a yellow tinge from the wood. I didnt do a methanol soak first.

I'm intending to pack a large ion-exchange tower with the stuff as a pretreatment and polish off with purabio or ecopure.

quote:

Originally posted by fabricator:
Red oak shavings, not treated with methanol, about 1gpm, the results of my full scale run were very disappointing, I figured I would need to wash once, but that was not the case, I had a layer in between the bio and water that was strange, like thick milk, it was not an emulsion there was no bio in it.
I took a sample and mixed with glycerine and another and mixed with vinegar and they did nothing no separation at all, the one I mixed with vinegar turned into something resembling cottage cheese overnight, I have since washed about 8 times and the layer is gone but I have no idea what it was

Strange one. If it isnt biodiesel/soap/water emulsion then its likely to be something extracted from the wood, or else some sort of contamination.

Ive no idea how closely red oak resembles european oak. All I can say is that I'm enthralled by the oak I got from the coopers - not a trace of soap or emulsion, tho the biodiesel is quite hazy (tho I didnt properly prepare the wood).

I had very hazy bio after the shavings also.

quote:

Originally posted by fabricator:
I had very hazy bio after the shavings also.

Yea. Thats why i'll still have a final polisher of some sort to remove it. But I'm thiking its possible that its something from the wood and that it'll disappear after a couple of runs.

If left long enough in the shavings the biodiesel goes crystal clear. The biodiesel would go clear by itself anyway, but it indicates that nothing permanent is finding its way into it.

Hi All, great topic this.

Getting back to original idea of using paper, has anyone thought about using shredded cardboard boxes? The ones without any print on it would avoid any ink residue issues. Just wonder if there arent any nasty gums etc added to make cardboard as they do have an odour to them.
Would be great if they work as they can be easily found at just about any store waste point.
Going to give it a bash and see. Unless of course someone can point to any unwanted chemicals present in the cardboard.

quote:

I had a layer in between the bio and water that was strange, like thick milk, it was not an emulsion there was no bio in it.

Try pre treating the oak with meth next time.

You can always recover the meth later.

In the meantime see if this batch of oak stops producing this layer as batches of bio progress. How many batches it takes.

quote:

Originally posted by pat hall:
Getting back to original idea of using paper, has anyone thought about using shredded cardboard boxes? The ones without any print on it would avoid any ink residue issues. Just wonder if there arent any nasty gums etc added to make cardboard as they do have an odour to them.
Would be great if they work as they can be easily found at just about any store waste point.
Going to give it a bash and see. Unless of course someone can point to any unwanted chemicals present in the cardboard.

Paper definitely has some purifying activity but Ive moved away from it for now in favour of hardwood. Theres too much additives in paper or cardboard which comes out into the biodiesel and I wouldnt use it on an operational scale until these have been determined.

Its possible theres a stage in preparing the raw paper/woodpulp before anything is added which might be of interest to us. But I would expect thahts harder to come by than wood shavings.

I just tried some cypress mulch from the nearby Lowes on some bio produced two days ago. It's been sitting sealed since then. Washed the mulch with methanol once and dried for a couple of hours. Put mulch in beaker and added bio to near top of mulch, so all bio was exposed to the mulch. Sat for 30 minutes mixing about every 5 minutes. Did shakem up test with 50% water on both sample and control. The wife walked in to see what I was doing with the mulch and picked the sample to be clearer than the control - she didn't know one from the other until after her selection. She was correct. The control had a definite emulsion layer and the water was white. The sample oil was clearer but had a strange white substance floating in the water and sticking to the sides of my jar. Not an emulsion, something different. The water itself was clear.

I assume this is the same sort of thing that Fabricator mentioned in one of his posts above.

I think we still have a lot to learn about this process before applying it to production. How many times should one wash the chips? These were washed with methanol once but probably needed another just judging by the color of metanol after washing.

May be time to take the chain saw to some oak firewood to make some chips.

Hugh

I suspect the white residue is resin. Cypress is a conifer. Thats why I'm avoiding softwoods.

However, I intend to try out some Leylandii (a cypress hybrid) to find out first hand how softwood behaves.