So my first batch of this "bio" season is one of my last from the fall that didn't process properly.

I made about 700 gallons last year and only had this problem once. I used oil that titrated at 11 (8+3) in 100L batches. I use an appleseed processor, into a standpipe settling drum into a stanpipe finish drum. After the process the batch sat for a minimum of 24 hrs. It then was transferred to the 3rd tank where it was heated to 200F while circulated via a clearwater pump. It then sat for a minimum of 24 hrs to let the soap drop out.

I put it in my suburban (6.2L) after passing through a 10 micron filter.

5 miles later my filter was clogged.

I had been running the exact same process all summer with no problems on the suburban and two TDI's.

Changed the fuel filter - same thing happened...


I pumped the tank dry, put the bio in a drum and let it sit all winter.

This spring I put it back through the processor and got a tiny bit more glycerin to drop out (could have been in the processor to begin with, could have be a reaction in the bio).

I'm now trying to get a clear water test to pass. Last night I had a terrible fail, just pouring the water in made it turn pure white.

When circulating the bio I get a nice layer of foam, but it's very white foam and doesn't have the "streaks" of soap that I've seen other times.

I heated to 200F again and circulated for over an hour to drive off the methanol from the 2nd process. Then I left a dry bubbler on it overnight (still going today) in hopes of driving off any more methanol and allowing the soap to settle.

The problem is that the bio won't seem to clear up. I usually get perfectly clear bio, but this batch, for whatever reason, stays murky. What's going on here and how can I salvage this batch? I was going to let the bubbler go for another day if it looks like it's helping... But after that I'm pretty well out of ideas.

Help?!

One other thing - my stock comes out of a 275gal tote, so it's not like I used a different feedstock (WVO).


Thanks in advance - I want to get back into the bio production, which will go into my new 12v cummins, but I don't want to screw up on my first batch! I'd like to plug my filter knowing that its the tank cleaning out, not bad bio.


EDIT - The bio is now very clear (transparent) but still fails the water test. Water instantly becomes white (not as white as before though), but the biodiesel does separate almost instantly as well. Perhaps I'm heading in the right direction??? I will let the bubbler go for another 24hrs then let it settle for 24hrs, then see what I've got.

Please let me know if I'm heading in the right direction.



Liam

I don't claim to be an expert biodieseler but I don't see anything mentioned about using the 3/27 test. Once I started using the 3/27 test to determine complete reactions I've think I made it over one huddle.My bio can look good after a wash and dry but the real test is when the bio cools down. If its not dried properly it will start to get hazy.

Absolutely do a 3/27 test before turning off the processor. Also the wash water needs to be clear before starting to dry. I prefer to do a soap titration to determine soap content. Soapy bio will be hard to dry. I would also suggest that you dry for a longer period of time with heat to drive out as much water as possible.

quote:

I used oil that titrated at 11 (8+3) in 100L batches.

You did not mention which catalyst used. For titration, 11 I hope you used KOh. NaOh will not work for that oil. So, you math should be:
8gm adjust for purity to 9 gm then add 11 gm for titration for a total of 20 grams of catalyst.

Your problem is most likely under reacted fuel, which explains all of your problems. Other options would be to find another oil source with a much better titration and do a glycerin pretreatment to bring down the titration values and salvage some if the meth and catalyst.

Sorry, I used KOH and the oil titrated at 3, so 8+3=11.

Also, I'm not water washing, I'm simply trying a 50/50 bio/water test with a small amount of 'finished' bio. When the water and bio seperate and the water is clear I am free of any soap.

My washing is a dry method. Heat off any methanol, then allow the soap to settle out.

Liam do you test 3/27 to check conversion? Could your feedsyock been wet creating excess soap?
Personally, I would rather use fuel that has been washed a little more thoroughly (water resin wood chips etc).

Mike,
I don't do a 3/27 test.

I don't think the feedstock was wet either. Actually, I let the drum sit last night for 12 hrs and it is now showing clear(er) water. I think with another 24 hrs of settling I should be showing crystal clear water in my 50/50 wash test.

I am just now learning about the woodchips and really like the idea. However, I don't have any of that final filtering equipment (columns, etc). If there is a really cheap and easy way to start this process I'm all ears. It's all greek to me!

You made 700 gal. without doing a 3/27 test last year? How much have you used in your vehicle? By the way I used used live in Vermont ,nice scenic state with alot of mosquitos. We don't have alot of mosquitos here too much pollution . I might be taking a trip up there this year. not a sure thing though.

quote:

I don't do a 3/27 test.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you nuts? That is one of the fastest ways to ruin an engine. Experience with soap titration has taught me that clear bio is not always clean enough to put in my truck. Your water test may be good enough for a furnace, but I need to know for a fact that the bio is the best is can be. Just too expensive to repair.

No offense taken.

We ran every bit of that through 3 vehicles. one 6.2L suburban and a 2001 TDI and a 2002 TDI. Nobody experienced any problems with IP's, fuel filters (I did clog one with the batch in question), etc.

I was under the impression that a 3.27 was supposed to be done after washing and drying, not after the initial process (when glycerin hasn't yet dropped out). Is this not true?

Perhaps I'll start using the 3/27 test this year.

Mike, what tests were used by home brewers before the 3/27 test came out? I followed the GL method with the clear water results. Technically if there was soap in it the water should show that correct?

As my profile says, I'm still learning.

quote:

made about 700 gallons last year and only had this problem once. I used oil that titrated at 11 (8+3) in 100L batches.

It looks like your oil titates at 8 and your using 3 as your base which is low for Naoh or KOH. I think you'll been very lucky to use 700 gallons and just starting to have problems.

Flip that. My oil titrates at 3 and my base was 8.

I think it would be better to do the 3/27 prior to washing to determine the level of conversion. I have never water washed, but I understand that fully converted BD is much easier to wash.

Burning fuel that is not fully converted may or may not cause harm to your engine. I haven't read anything here that suggests that it does. In fact people burn SVO all the time and that fuel has not been converted at all -- only heated.

As far as setting up a wood chip soap removal system, all you need is a drum with wood chips in it and something to stir the chips up every now and then to get the soap to come in contact with the wood chips. I use a 20 gallon tub that I bought at Lowe's. Last night I filled it about 20% with wood chips and dropped a Little Giant pond pump in the bottom. I placed a screen on top of the tub, put some wood chips on top of that and pumped the BD from the tub to the top of the screen and let it drain back into the tub.

I did this overnight and the BD appeared to be soap free this morning. The BD was from the middle of my settling tank and was fairly soapy. I then ran it through my resin columns for peace of mind and poured that through a 1 micron sock filter into a couple of 5 gallon diesel container and then straight into the tank. I don't think the resin columns are necessary, but I already have them so I might as well use them. The main thing with wood chips is you need to have a good final filter or you will end up changing your fuel filter more often.

mike i cannot answer that. I just started last year. but 3/27 works well on fresh brew. and fuel usually tests better after washing. I also have to agree with heatbeater. the problem may have been cumulative.

If I remember correctly KOH soap ppm is 61and is barely seen. I have been titrating for soap since Jan. I have an 04 powerstroke and I cannot afford to think it's clean , I need to knowfor sure

I've been using 3/27 for the last 3 batches while I,m doing the reaction . I use a small mason jar to collect the sample and place the sample in cold water for a while. My understanding is that the 3/27 is accurate at 65F but to test a sample that is 130F may give you a false pass. The hotter bio may show conversion when it really isn't. I haven't done this enough. If I think of it, I'll do a 3/27 on hot and cool samples to see if there's a difference.

Heat,

When you add 3ml of 130F BD to 27ml of 64F methanol, the combined temp drops signigicantly. It doesn't take very long for it to reach room temperature. In fact the 130F BD will drop quickly in just a few minutes by itself. I don't think the cold water bath is really necessary, but if it works for you, go for it.

Eurocab that makes alot of sense. For some reason i thought the hotter bio oould break-up or dissolve in the methanol and throw the test off. Similiar to how the a "bailout' works. I should run for president. i couldn't resist the sarcasism.

I just did a 3/27 on my last batch. It is in the settling drum and has yet to be heated to drive off the methanol. I got a great pass. No fallout and only a tiny bit 'murky'.

The bad news is I'm out of methanol now. Time to see what the prices are here in Vermont!

Hey Guys,
I was doing my 3/27 with hot oil and getting a pass everytime. AndrewM is adament that both meth and BD has to be 67F to get an accurate pass. I kind of believe this now so I have been doing all my test at 67F and not stopping til I get a pass.
Just my .2 cents..
Lisa

Liam when the test is murky it indicates a borderline pass. All of the triglycerides have been broken apart but thee are still some mono and di left in the fuel. I usually continue to mix for a while longer till I get a clear pass.