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Do you demeth before sawdust drywash?
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I'm reading a lot of variation on how methanol is treated when using sawdust drywashing. I think I have read at least six different methods. What do you do and why do you do it that way?

Thanks!

Question:
Do you Demeth when you use sawdust Drywash?

Choices:
no, it soaks up all the methanol
yes, after drywashing with the sawdust
yes, before drywashing with the sawdust

 

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RickDaTech,
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I dont demeth. However, if I have to use NaOH I add some water after draining the glycerol just to stop the overnight dropout from solidifying in my plumbing, and this takes out most of the methanol. But the sawdust removes most of it too, and I live with whatevers left in the biodiesel.
 
Location: Scotland | Registered: March 19, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I picked the last one but have no idea what you mean by "before drywashing with the methanol" I demeth the whole batch then let the glycerine settle out then vacuum demeth, then through the sawdust.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ooops, OK, I fixed it, but it reset the poll.

By "demeth" I mean remove the methanol by whatever process you use. You may or may not actually "recover" the methanol. If you remove the methanol, do you do it before or after drywashing with the sawdust?

Thanks!
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Number 3.
Since I'm recovering methanol I'd like to recover as much as possible before it's lost.
 
Location: central virginia | Registered: March 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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#3.


1996 K2500 4x4 6.5TD
 
Location: Southern Indiana USA | Registered: June 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I recover methanol using a "plumbers delight" condensor. During recovery I don't push the temperature too high and realize that I am not getting all the methanol out. I then bubble to drive off more methanol. At that point I settle for as long as possible. A lot of the soap drops out during settling. Then if I deem it necessary I will run it through my wood chip stack. From what I've read here having at least some small amount of methanol is necessary for the wood chips to work properly. I hope to do some before and after soap titrations this year to test the effectiveness of this process.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK Folks,

What do you do to prepare the sawdust? Do you wash it with biodiesel or methanol or both or something else? What do you do with the first batch of biodiesel or methanol through the sawdust? I'm assuming the first batch would pickup any resins out of the sawdust, what do you do to the first batch differently than the rest?
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Absolutely nothing, the first few gallons will be cloudy but it clears up pretty quick.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by RickDaTech:
I'm reading a lot of variation on how methanol is treated when using sawdust drywashing. I think I have read at least six different methods. What do you do and why do you do it that way?

Thanks!



00ml per min is that high?that is under 1L per min. where can i get saw dust from any idea where to look for thanks

Registered: 02 April 2010
 
Registered: April 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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00ml per min is that high?that is under 1L per min. where can i get saw dust from any idea where to look for thanks

Registered: 02 April 2010
 
Registered: April 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Jehu:
I dont demeth. However, if I have to use NaOH I add some water after draining the glycerol just to stop the overnight dropout from solidifying in my plumbing, and this takes out most of the methanol. But the sawdust removes most of it too, and I live with whatevers left in the biodiesel.


how easy is it to empty sawdust from 200L barrel and how you do it
 
Registered: April 02, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Rick,
I primed my wood chip column by running some recovered methanol through it. It came out very dark, from the tannin in the wood I believe. This was methanol that I believed to be too impure for reuse in my processor. After priming the column I used it for stove fuel. Nothing goes to waste.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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bump,

Only 10 people drywash with either sawdust or eco2pure?

No wonder there is so much conflicting information.
 
Location: Cowboy Country | Registered: December 06, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I selected 3 also and I do nothing to the wood chips prior to filtering the BD.

I am sure there are more out there who are just too busy to check into the forum. I have been so busy working on my Spring garden that I just noticed this poll.
 
Location: Chambodia | Registered: December 31, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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#3

I use ecopure and dry kiln red oak sawdust, do nothing to the chips but use them.
 
Registered: January 22, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by PbIntoAu:
"I recover methanol using a "plumbers delight" condensor."

So what's that? Did you make it yourself? We made one and got nothing off the processor. We obviously don't have the design right.
 
Location: SE Ma  | Registered: November 06, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Try searching this forum for "plumbers delight". There will be tons of posts. Another good place to look would be on Graham Laming's site. I don't know if he invented it, but his instructions are some of the best I've seen. http://www.graham-laming.com/bd/still/still.htm
If you made one and hooked it up properly using a venturi to pull the vapor through then I don't know why you're not recovering any methanol. Make sure the top of your processor is thoroughly insulated and that your circulator water is cool enough.


"mixing up a bunch of magic stuff"

Al

2005 Jeep Liberty CRD - B25 - 100
2005 Ford F250 6.0 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 2300 - B25 - 100
Kubota BX 1860 - B25 - 100
5KW Generator Set - B25
Lopi Republic 1250 - Glycerol/Sawdust Logs
Bath and Laundry - Glycerine Soaps
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: June 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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ive been doing some tests and it seems that the soap is best filtered after demethylation. This is because the soap is still in solution with methanol in the bio. With no methanol, the soap will drop out of solution and flocculate. It is in this form that the soap can anchor onto the cellulose better.
With alder woodshavings in a column and mesh netting it takes out 85% of the soap, with a 20 micron filter after the woodshavings it catches almost all the soap.
 
Registered: June 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Graham Laming's site. I don't know if he invented it,


Yes he did. Also the other stuff on his site unless he has credited someone else (me in one instance).

I pass bio straight into untreated sawdust.
the sawdust demeths the bio and hence precipitates the dissolved soaps for filtration by the large surface area of the fiberous wood. I get resins at first but these settle out in a day or three. I do it this way because it is easy.


mathematical elegance -- desired result achieved with minimal complication
 
Location: Manchester UK | Registered: June 03, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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