quote:

Originally posted by David610:
I'm very interested in seeing how well the wood chips work in place of resin.

I've started the batch which will be ready to run thru the tower of shavings tomorrow. The tower is all set up with the shavings sitting in biodiesel to soak and prime.
I had thought of priming in methanol but I found that biodiesel works fine in the small trial runs, and it'll save a lot of time and trouble (and I'm impatient to see what the results will be )

I dry washed the batch (100L) with the oak shavings and the results are great. No soap, clear biodiesel.

I took a few pics so that I could explain things as I went along but for some reason I'm not allowed to post pics more than 50kb in size - how come other folk can post big pics?

PS - OK, here's a downsized pic of the raw and oak treated biodiesel after a severe shake-em-up test

oakwashc.jpg (46 KB, 97 downloads)

RickdaTech- I meant unattended with the power running. Thankfully we can leave the BD to settle with no one actually at the processor. Did you mean GL as in GL's 1 day process? I found the page:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/719605551/m/9721044051

Step 2 must be what you are talking about. Hmmm. I'll have to get R&D working on a heater/condenser set up. That seems complicated Thanks for the information Rick.


Jehu-Excellent!

So you soaked oak shavings in BD (do you remember how long? And did you dry them afterwords or did you use them damp?) stuffed them into a regular resin tower and got sweet clean BD out. Wow. Good job. Did you go from glycerin removal straight to the shavings or did you have a soap pre-removal step like what RickDaTech was explaining to me?

The oak treated BD's water is very clear, and no visible emulsion layer, very nice. Not sure about the pictures, I'm sort of new to the forums so I don't know.

David,

I highly recommend the GL process. I have used it for a year now and produced about 600 gallons of clear BD with very little water. The condensor is really not too complicated and requires no major modification to your appleseed. It's an "add-on". The nice thing about this process is that it involves no recurring expense for resin and actually saves some money by recovering methanol from your BD. The meth recovery does require close monitoring.

One minor drawback is that GL uses a 5% water prewash. This is really a small amount of water and it does end up in your glycerol. I've found it to be acceptable.

Some might see a second drawback in that GL requires some settling time. You may have seen GL refer to the process as GL-1 Day. For me it has been more like GL-1 Week. After condensing out the methanol the fuel needs to sit for the soap to drop out. My thinking is "the longer, the better", especially with KOH catalyst. NaOH might settle faster. The nice thing about this is that settling requires no energy or "attended supervision". If you are at WSU you should be able to get enough room for several settling tanks with standpipes. Settling time costs me nothing, so I use it liberally.

I have tried out a small resin column as a final polisher, but have yet to detect a real improvement. Perhaps it is because I settle out so much soap to begin with, there is very little to polish. I've enjoyed the discussion of wood chips here and may experiment with that this season.

Please make sure to plan out how you will handle your byproduct. Glycerol can be used in a number of ways and you will have plenty of it. Mine is going into my woodstove to help heat my house in the form of glycerol/sawdust logs.

Best of luck to you!

PbIntoAu- sorry for the long delay in response.

So using the GL process you don't really need to do any after process filtration at all?? wow. We'll be using KOH so I guess we'll have to settle longer. This is something to think about. Not buying the filtration system would save our budget a big hit, and just as you said settling the fuel costs us nothing and can go on 24/7. You use the stand pipe to drain off the settled BD on the top and avoid the muck at the bottom right?

Yes, the wood chip idea might go very well with what you are doing now. From what I understand (and I might be off) you might settle your BD like regular but with oak chips in the BD and get even better results. But as RickDaTech said there isn't much in the way of testing results for wood chips (at least that he has come across)

We're on top of the glycerol. We had planned on making it into WSU cougar head soap and selling it at the campus store. Burning it is a good idea too, but I don't think WSU wants us working with fuel and fire

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. And once again sorry for the super long reply time.

David

It is very interesting to read this thread. I too could not make up my mind which method to use and my ability/resources to fabricate things like wash towers are limited. Then there is the slow rate through the towers, which was too time consuming for me, as is water washing (plus I do not have an easy way to dispose of wash water).

So, I gravitated to Magnesol and have evolved to an efficent system for the volume I produce.
-Once the settle glycerin is drained, the fuel is pumped into a 100 gallon metal stock tank and demethed through aeration.

-The stock tank is elevated to allow gravity flow. After demething I settle it for a minimum of 24 hours (but prefer 48), gravity drain, clean the settled glyderin, and return the fuel to the stock tank. At this point the fuel is usually clearing up significantly.

-I then mix the magnesol in the fuel for 1-2 hours using a paint stirrer attached to an electric motor. Settle overnight and drain through a 5 micron sock. I then send it through a sock filter housing at 1 micron nominal. When I am ready to use the fuel it goes back through the filter housing with a 1 micron absolute sock and through a 1 micron absolute canister filter to my truck.

I do use the glycerin pre-treatment which as greatly reduced my soap production through water removal before processing.

My Magnesol rates run 2-3g/l most of the time, which is fairly inexpensive. Most importantly my hands on time is minimal and I seldom have pumps or processes going on when I am not there.

Some pictures are at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23333954@N06/sets/72157612833699193/

For you guys wanting to try the wood chips or eco2pure the cost can be very low. I made a filter with a tall Rubbermaid trash can. I put a spigot on the bottom to control flow. A stainless mesh was placed inside about 3 inches from the bottom. Aprox. 12 inches of ecopure goes on top of the screen. The whole thing sits on a wood frame on top of a 55 gal. drum. I pump in 15 gals of unwashed demethed BD adjust the flow and it comes out beautifully clear. It takes about one hour to pass my 30 gallon batch. I do a before and after shakem-up test with great results. Even using deionized water with very vigorous shaking yields perfectly clear water after separation. How can I post pictures?

David610,

Boy are you getting a lot of info thrown at you. There is always more than one way to solve the equation!

Here is what I can tell you about our experience using Eco2Pure: we processed 400 gallons through 10 lbs until it no longer removed any impurities (initial tested values were equal to the post eco2pure tested values - soap only).

We used a column configuration (its our 5" x 60" tester column perhaps some other configuration would be better but at this time for economics this seems the best since it should force the biodiesel into the most consistent contact with the entire beds media.

Our starting soap concentrations were 600 ppm (not a lot by most standards but it was all we had to work with so we thought this was a best case type senario). The initial soap removal was from 600 ppm to <60 ppm - we were very impressed.

After 200 gallons had went through the column differential pressure had increased significantly and the soap reduction was much less >60 but less than 150 ppm.

By 400 gallons column pressure was well over 20 psi and no more soap removal was taking place.

Now the nightmare - getting the packed Eco2Pure out of the column (this is why I say a better configuration might be possible this is why we developed a 2 part removal tool in order to improve removal but it still isn't easy and needs to be assisted by air pressure). Interestingly enough when you pull out the used Eco2Pure the soaked media is dark brown to blackish however the molecular sieves added to the wood chips are perfectly visible and surprisingly (to me) there was more than I initially thought base on my inspection of the original dry material...

At say $4 per lb of media; $40 got us kinda 400 gallons of purified biodiesel or 10 cents per gallon.

Now if someone finds a nice supply of dry, clean, hard wood saw-dust/wood chips then I think this would be more economical since it would be possible to use a less efficient configuration that was much more easily and more often changed out.

Given this we think it is a fantastic media for going straight from the reactor or demethylation phase to either clean fuel or some secondary purification media like ion exchange resin. This is how we are using it, as a gross knock down of the thick soaps that usually coagulate after methanol removal...

This way we don't have to worry about its overall efficiency just its gross ability to act as a roughing filter.

GCG

$0.10 a gallon is good. The last Magnesol I bought was 108.98 delivered. Glycerin pre-treatments and settling the soap and glycerin after demething allows me to use 2-3g/l most of the time. If I figure it at 4g/l, that is 1500 gallons per bag which comes to $0.072 per gallon. Plus I don't have to contend with slow flows through a column.

Knotwild-- Same here. We haven’t got much money or experience with filter towers so we were weary about making one or buying one (they are expensive!) It’s the same with us, we are all students that will be making BD between classes so process speed is important, as well as waste disposal.

For your demething, you say on your pictures that you get the BD tub to 120F. Do you think that kind of temp could be achieved with a steel drum and a drum heater? And how long do you run the BD at that temp for? We want to do something similar, but the school doesn’t want us venting methanol off so we have to collect it and re-condense it.

Have you had any problems with magnesol getting past your 1micron filters? Some people were saying that the magnesol could be hard to get out.

Just checked out the glycerin pre-treatment process and it sounds good. I think we’re going to use the GL 1 day process, but it should be compatible with the glycerin pre-treatment process you are using too. Thanks for the tip on that one!

That’s a big plus, for electricity use for one, and for anyone (like us) who can’t have any pumps or anything going unattended. That is what we’ve been trying to get to, have most of the time to go from WVO to BD to be non-electrical processes.

You’re getting some nice clean looking BD there. In your photo of the three samples of BD: http://www.flickr.com/photos/2...t-72157612833699193/ you said the middle one (or second from left) was just demethed, settled and filtered, for doing nothing extra it looks pretty good, a little cloudy but not bad.

Hmmmm, I see. So the magnesol is actually even cheaper than the eco2pure. Nice. I hadn’t expected that. Yea, the “just pore it into the BD” ability of the magesol must increase processing time a lot.

helpucguy—Nice! That set up must have only cost you a few bucks to make. Do you have any problems with the eco2pure expanding or getting through your filters? This sounds great! It is cheap and can easily be added into our current system. I think we’ll try what we have now and if it’s not clean enough we’ll try your set up helpucguy. I’d sooner go with you Rubbermaid set up than shell out 500+ for a professional filter tower, I’m sure the pro towers would get us better results and look cleaner but we just don’t have the budget for that kind of thing now. Perhaps once we get better established. I don’t know how to post pictures unfortunately, I’d really like to see what you’ve got  I hope you find a way to post them.

GCG—A torrent of pure gold! You guys here at the forums have been bombarding me with so much information I’ve been well supplied with ways to get around our problems. And yes, there are so many ways to solve the BD equation ^__ ^ that I’ve stopped worrying about it. If I try something and it doesn’t work, I can come back here and get it figured out.

Wow 10lbs took 400 gallons! That’s a lot of processing.

We were initially going to go with a column, but the cost put us off it (it would have eaten up more than half our little start up money) and onto the GL 1 day process. We can still use the eco2pure in the process though, with some modifications I think.

Wow! That’s a 90% drop (if I did my math properly). Did you get that with one pass?

Less than 150ppm is still pretty good, considering it started at 600ppm. So you got 400gallons through before it expired. Not too bad. Is the pressure rise due to the eco2pure expanding or is it the impurities clogging up the tower?

What did you do with the soaked media after you got it out of your tower? From what I understand of it (and that’s not much) you might be able to burn it. Does that sound right?

That’s cheap, I don’ know much about other filter media costs but that sounds like a manageable cost per gallon to get good cleaning results.

Right, well put GCG. The wood chips are something we’ve got to try over here at WSU. Our uppers would love to hear we are using waste wood chips to clean green fuel, it would look good and cut down on operating costs. We have a wood shop on campus, right next door, so we’ll have to look into that. But once again, I’m not sure the protocol on disposing of the chips.

David: I have never used a drum heater, but from what I have read it should get the temp to 120. The higher the temp, the faster the methanol comes off. At the 120F, it takes about 4 hours circulating with the pump. If I don't use the heater, it takes about 6 hours provided the outside temp is not too cold.

It is important to remember that settling (after demething) is the key to lower Magnesol rates. If you do not allow settling, the rates will likely reach 5-8g/L of Magnesol.

The sample you referenced in the photos was just a test to see how much residual glycerin and soap settling removed. When I mention clarity in the captions, I am referring to the water, not the BD.

Good luck.

Great, we'll have to look into getting a heater then. So the pump is a must for the process? If a drum of BD was heated but not circulated would you still get most of the methanol driven off?

Right, the more soaps and impurities the more Magnesol you need. Got it.

Yea, I knew you were talking about how nice and clean your water was. I was just noting the clarity of your BD between the two jars.

David:
It is simple to make a home made heater from a hot water heating element. I screwed a 1" nipple into the outlet side of a cheap 1" clear water pump (less than $40 from Northern Tool, Harbor Freight, or Ebay). On top of the nipple I put a 1" x 1 1/4" T, then two 1 1/4" nipples into each end of the T and two reducers back down to 1". The overall measurement of the 1 1/4" section at the T should be long enough to accept a 120V hot water heating element. Screw the elment into one end of the T and attach a 1" hose to the side you want to use for an outlet. Always unplug the element first as it will immediately burn out if you stop the pump first.

Then all you have to do is start the pump and plug in the heating element. You could increase efficiency by insulating your barrel if you choose. I think your temp in 40-50 gallons will come up faster than my larger batches and it might reduce your demething time.

The pump allows you to spray the heated fuel back into the tank providing aeration and exposure to air to remove the methanol. Mine works like a garden hose nozzle sprayed down into a bucket of water - lots of bubbles. I don't think it will help much to heat without recirculation.

Also remember to use a paint stirrer (or some other mechanical method) to mix the Magnesol. Do not run the Magnesol through a pump as it will shear/grind the Magnesol to a smaller size and make it much harder to filter out.

I forgot to mention that when I gravity flow the Magnesol fuel out of the stock tank, it goes through 2-5 micron filters (one inserted into the other). This removes most of the Magnesol, they can be washed and re-used, and it extends the life of the 1 micron absolute sock filter that I use as a final. JM Ellsworth has some 1 micron nominal filters that I use as the finished fuel is pumped into my truck; just for insurance.