Good point about petrol fumes, If using volatile mixtures it would be worthwhile to vent the blending tank to the outside of the building just as we do with our biodiesel processors.
At the moment I am using the petrol/diesel mix to winterize my biodiesel and its working well so far. We dont have your kind of cold weather here, coldest night so far has been -2°C
My black gasoil outfit has been up and running for 2 weeks now. The upflow tank works really well It is permanently full with 200 litres of wmo. Almost every day I add 20 litres more and 20 litres of clean settled oil is automatically transferred to the filter tank. This means that the oil has at least 10 days residence in the upflow tank.
The 5 micron bag filter works perfectly, I dont know how long they will last but this one is showing no signs of slowing down.
With the wmo that I am getting 55% kerosene is producing a good match for green diesel ( regular gasoil) The viscosity, flashpoint and SG are exactly the same and it is burning cleanly in my Riello 40 burner. ( pump pressure 11 bar.)
Once you start looking for waste and salvage oil it is everywhere. I was offered 12, 200litre drums of brand new transformer oil last week, It would only take 30% kerosene to make this into gasoil.This message has been edited. Last edited by: imakebiodiesel,
Looking good IMB, how are you measuring the quantities each of the WMO and kero in the blending tank? Have you a measuring stick or is there a sight glass I can't see?
There is a steel measuring stick fixed inside the blending tank with markings every 10 litres. the viscosity ladle also hangs inside the tank.This message has been edited. Last edited by: imakebiodiesel,
Hi folks, hope your all well
Ref running home heating burners on wmo.
Whats the procedure to run a home heating boiler on a wmo/home heating oil mix?
I know John and a few of you have had great success recently running on a 55% kero/wmo mix.
My house has gas heating but I have a friend-who happens to be a very good plumber and central heating engineer-and we want to experiment running a boiler on wmo(black gas oil) kero mix.
Being a central heating engineer he has a few boilers pumps etc lying around.
Today he rigged up a warmflow boiler and 2 radiators in his shed(where he works in the evening repairing boilers etc)if we can get it to work on a wmo/kero mix he could later easily rig pipes to his house using motorised valves.
I've told him what I know from this forum,that the waste motor oil has to be settled and filtered but I wasn't to sure about the boiler pressure settings etc.
His setup is a 50/70 warmflow boiler with a reillo burner.
He says ideally he'd like to know the oil pressure settings,nozzel size angle and pattern and maybe some flue gas expected readings . . ppm co2 ?
Thanks in advance-
The settling and filtering are very important but easy to do. Only make up about 100 litres of black gasoil at a time as it tends to separate over a few weeks.
Its a good idea to have a small tank of green/ red diesel that you can switch over to to purge the fuel line/pump/nozzle if you are not going to be using the burner for a while.
Most Riello burners run at 8 bar for kerosene, I recommend upping that to 10 or even 11 bar for black gasoil. The air should be adjusted to give the lowest possible co2/ smoke output.
The nozzle should be the same angle as for kerosene but black gasoil has 10% more calorific value than kerosene so a lower output nozzle should be selected to avoid overheating the boiler.
I hope this helps.This message has been edited. Last edited by: imakebiodiesel,
Thanks for the quick reply.
Will give it a go this week.
Just an update on Black gasoil. I have been running my alaska burner/boiler on it for 2 months now. the fuel is pumped into the burner with a peristaltic pump, no preheating is used. It lights easily and burns extremely consistently and cleanly. After a daily 12 hour burn there is very little char left and its easy to clean out with a vacuum cleaner.
Presently I am using 65% wmo and 35% salvage petrol/diesel mixture( mostly petrol.) This produces a fuel that is a viscosity match for biodiesel and a flash point of 50°C
Yes I tested it twice, the test is accurate to within 10%. The flash point of my motor oil is around 120°C and as you say petrol is well below zero. I found that if you leave black gasoil for about a week the flash point of the upper layer drops significantly as the heavy and light fuels tend to separate. I have a mixing paddle in my blending tank and I give it a spin about twice a week.
A blend of 50/50 wmo and kerosene flashes at 80°C which is close to the flash point of Diesel.
This is how I test for flashpoint
I havnt checked the petrol content of this batch, it just smells strongly of petrol and makes that watery splashing sound. Also the fact that only 35% was needed to correct the viscosity suggested high petrol content.
Sorry I made a typo in that last post, the flash point of my wmo is 220 not 120°C.
Yhat was an interesting video.
At the risk of being labeled pedantic, I will go ahead and point out a few concerns with your procedure..
The first is that you do not use an Open cup to test the flash point of liquids with a Flash point under 79C. The reason for this is that the volitiles will evaporate off to qickly.
You should be using a Closed cup tester.
The other problem is that you are confusing flash point with fire point.
Flash point is the lowest temperature at which the vapor of a combustible liquid can be made to ignite momentarily in air.
Fire point is where there is ignition and the flame continues for at least 5 seconds.
In your video you reached the flash point at 35 C, and the fire point at 40 C.
well quite some time has gone by since a few folks (mainly from the USA) experimented with
burning B100 thro various pressure jet burners. As usual in warm climates there was no need to
warm the B100 but as soon as the weather got cool it equaled problems with cold firing and even with
mineral diesel same problem. That was why the cleaver tech came up with winding the pump pressure
way up which solved the poor atomization and thus cured the problem and even better cleaner running with the higher pressures overall. (I think about the common rail diesel engines which have gone same way !)
The main little deviation I was going to mention was that because I'm very old school I didn't pay much attention to the tigerloop system which has certainly opened up another plus as regards the possibility of a slightly different approach to the design of a sytem for the burning of Biodiesel.
I found that I had quite a bit of trouble when the nozzle heater is used to up the temp of the bio before it enters the nozzle. I find a better system is to fit a BIO Tigerloop and fit a band heater
to the flow out of the tigerloop. The diameter of the pipe within the band heater must have to be increased to perhapse 25 mm to permit the heat exchange satisfactorily. I made mine in stainless and is about 70mm long x 25mm diameter. The band heater is 150 watts and warms the Bio to about 50C.
I find the nozzle is not affected at all due to the oil heater being remote ( as is the length of the flexes) away from the burner.
My old assumption re -you don't have to have one of those newfangled tiger things was wrong. You do need one when burning B100 in a cold climate at least for trouble free running that is.
Hope this helps some of you heating with B100....
Hi Mick, Nice to see your still around!
Do you have a link to this "tiger loop" setup your talking about?
I installed a boiler with a Riello in my home a couple years ago and am now into the second heating season. I put up a post about it here: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/ev...1078231/m/1917046873
So far it has been working great!
I am using a Carlin preheater behind the nozzle. I took a piece of 3/8" aluminum rod and drilled a hole through the middle the size of the nozzle line, about 1/8". Then I sawed it in half and clamped it around the tube and fastened the heater block. Its been working great with no detectable nozzle drip. I am not sure that it was even necessary but its in there now.
Simple schematic for a pump and heater control with a high limit
Sensor for the biodiesel/glycerin layer
Must be bio boiler day. I just got a new one fitted and came across this article while researching burner set up. Its on nozzles has some very usefull info I thought people would be interested in.
Hi Jon sorry it's a while since I contributed..... I hope you found the info re the Tigerloop. My system is nice re the starting in any cold weather but I do have a problem with either unburnt fuel or nozzle drip despite fitting the fuel stop dvice made by a subsiduary of Delavan. I think I might experiment with an old electro-oil burner I have retained but before I do any experiments I have to convince myself and confirm that it is either unburnt fuel alone due to atomisation problem caused by either settings or choice of nozzle etc...... I wished I lived closer to Imakebio because he seems very adept and has experimented comprehensively to say the least. He is a crdit to the biodiesel club we are all in.... and especially those of us who are trying to cut down on our heating bills !
If I cannot get my blast tube to keep clean and dry I will have to mix my fuel with 50% kero....
I am in a good position to do a lot of experimenting because I have a Riello 40 G5 which is the cleanest re smoke at 0 but the blast tube gets wet and dirty quickly after only 4 days. I also have an
old electro-oil 109/110 which runs quite well with a .75 nozzle at 150 psi and above that pressure but I cannot get the smoke below 1. I just bought two nearly new burners that I used to give away free while I was working but they were not dear at £85 for both. one is a Riello RDB and a Nu way ST S1S-63.
The draught tubes on both the last ones will deliver much less heat than the other older burners I have so I'll be able to experiment a lot between the 4 ! I can even put the latest Nu Way tube on the old Electro-oil burner. One thing I notice is that because long ago I shifted the fuel solenoid as close as I could get to the input fuel tube nearest to the nozzle this does not drip when there is shut off. I think the bit of smoke I get is more than likely imperfect atomisation which might have to be unfortunately cured by a big addition of kero. Its as cheap as it will ever be at the mo
so I shouldn't complain........ Buying fuel comes keen because years ago I used to get plenty of free fuel when I changed a burner over to gas & the powers that be used to make me get rid of it for them due to the cost of insurance re the fuel storage thing which was zero for Nat gas.... Those were the days.......
Imakebiodiesel , jon heron,crazyhorse and the tech Biotom ---Are we back to the old days of the 'drip tray' but to go with that device very lenient or should I say none existent safety officers ?
This morning I am very disapointed with the fact that although I've been working with oil in all sorts of boilers both pressure jet and 'pot' and up to a mil BTu's I cannot stop the drip------ Please can anyone suggest a method to stop the problem. I like crazyhorse have a few burners (4) of differing styles and types and like Imakebiodiesel I have a Riello 40 G5 which I aquired from his neckof the woods afew years ago because there seems to be a great more scope to buy more oil firing stuff second hand than here in England.......... I've given away many a burner over the years but I bought two nice little burners last week - a RDB- 2.2 and a Nu way Sterling S1S-63....... It is interesting
my oldest burner an old Electro Oil 109 does not drip at the nozzle so much as all the other burners causing a lot of un-burnt fuel nocking about at the end of the blast tube but I cannot adjust this burner to give me a smoke reading less than 1. Many years ago that no 1 smoke was acceptable but not now. I am determined to either get this crap in the tube right but it has taken some puzzeling to date.
I am thinking that perhapse a solenoid that opens when the shut off solenoid on the pump shuts therefore reducing the nozzle pressure at all time to zero when the burner shuts down on the high pressure line to the nozzle.
Quite why there is nozzle drip when Bio is in the mix in great quantity is I think the hurdle to be overcome because I have not seen this problem when burning mineral 35 sec fuel and certainly not with burning kero. I fitted a Delavan anti drip 'eco' valve to a Delavan nozzle ( they won't fit a Danfoss nozzle) but I still had a lot of crap developing very quickly when this was fired in the Riello 40 -G5. This burnt 100% bio with zero smoke. I bought the Riello as most engineers will agree that the draught/blast tube is infinitely adjustabe regarding flame retention etc. All I did to it was to fit a new Bio Pump to eliminate any future probs ...... Please tell what the settings are if you engineers out there have one of the above burners that keeps the blast tube clean because I can then set mine up to cure this dasterdly problem of the nozzle drip.
I thought for a very long time that the fuel that was un-burnt was down to the technicalities of combustion not being achieved but I think the nozzle drip is the problem as each and every time the burner shuts down the fuel squeezes out and dirties the tube. The waste oil burners all heat the blast tube to such an extent that the fuel is atomized utterly and is therefore burnt.
I spoke to a tech at 'thermobile' ( have I got the company right) a few years ago as they make waste oil burners. A pal bought one cheap as chips but was put off using it when I relayed the info to him re the heat exchanger needs cleaning of the grey dust every month at least. It also uses 1.5 Kw/hr to heat the oil.... He went for a Stirling kero burner at £50 coupled to the fact that hardly any cleaning operation per anum. His lovely garage is 40ft square and that 400.00 btu hot air unit
with 100 thou going into it keeps him as warm as toast in the coldest weather in Woodborough Notts.
I'm looking forward to fitting and testing the extra solenoid idea but it's another £27 + to shell out........ I notice Riello advocate only 30% bio added to not kero but fuel oil and I wonder why that is....... I haven't spoken with Jonathan Childs for yonks ( Nu Way ) but I hear he is back on the tools & I wonder if he sees any biodiesel burning boilers on his travels.... I must give him a call. If all fails it's a good job kero is near enough same price as I can turn out the biofuel so it might be a case of going back to the stinky stuff but without the drippy nozzle which will be wonderfull.... I hate the thought of a problem beating me.....
I've been thinking------------ I haven't worked on many boilers that were down firing but I can remember an old Centrajet
that had a Nu-Way C2 burner 270.000 btus/hr and this fired at about 40 degrees down into the combustion chamber. I observed that the burner head on 35 sec fuel oil was pretty clean on many a yearly service. So if a burner with the nasty drip at the nozzle on the BIO was to be fired at such an angle would the oil that usually causes the coking within the blast tube be blown out and evaporated and burnt and would that downward firing eliminate the problems associated with horizontal firing causing the crap that contaminates the tube? Something to experiment on maybe ????????? With a Potterton BOA a bit of reconstruction to be done! It might even work.........
I PM'd you a few days ago but never got a reply.
Anyway, no worries. Just to say I have used various mixes of WVO/ kerro and 90% converted bio/kerro in my riello G5 for the last 5 years.
I am no expert with these burners but I have found the more kerosene in the blend, the better the mix works.
Because kerosene is so cheap at the moment I am presently using 90% converted bio and kerosene 50/50 and the blast tube with this mix has to be cleaned every 3 months or so.
I have run 90% bio and 10% kerosene for long periods, but have to clean the heater more often.
With the present price of kerosene (last delivery was 25.5 pence/litre) it is hardly worth the effort to convert WVO into bio. The oil I use for the bio for this isn't good quality but I still pay for it, so the bio ends up still costing me about 20ppl.
Hello DGS Thanks for the info I didn't see your message though ? my email has changed since it was
ntl world.com & is email@example.com...... I made a mistake or at least I think I did re the nozzle drip ( I'm old you know ) but that;s no excuse ! What I found that it was my fuel causing unburnt fuel to contaminate the blast tube and cause the associated dirty clagged up blast tube at the inside end of the tube. Back in about 2008/9 I burnt B100 with success but found the blast tube did not keep clean - not clean enough for me at any rate.
As I mentioned about the Trianco boiler which is 45 degree down firing it gave me an idea which I have now done by making a metal tube which is about 1" at the top and 3" at the bottom with flanges to fit to the boiler and accept the burner all this out of 5mm steel. Inside the boiler I have made a half round 10 guage steel 'gutter' 120mm wide X 200 mm long which catches any unburnt fuel ( well it's unburnt till it hits the 'catcher' as the catcher is red hot after 20 mins firing.....
You are quite right about the Kero as is I M B D but I don't think Jon Heron who is a clever lad uses Kero in his fuel ??????? ( Hope I'm right on that Jon) the mix I am experimenting with has about 50% kero in it......
One surprising item is the info given out re the biodiesel calorific value being lower than mineral fuels. This info does not seem to match my findings in that when by burner is burning biodiesel even with unburnt fuel knocking about it is far far hotter than the mineral fuels.
I have made an adjustment on my oldest burner by moving the nozzle nearer the diffuser and have eliminated the slight smoke which was No 1 to zero. ( This info was in an old Selectos Burner manual I have). This adjustment works with this Electro-oil 109 burner.
I spoke to Danfoss Tech re their statements re burning Biodiesel mixtures and he confirmed that little concrete evidence is forthcoming at least here in the UK. He said it was an unknown quantity for Danfoss to be able comment on calorific values etc & that may be the reason they avoid the whole subject of Biodiesel. Most of us who have used Bio since Dave Kenny, Bio Lyle, Graydon Blaire & a few others (the lovely Guys) have known that although unbeknown to the general public there has been around 7% biodiesel in the diesel at the pumps for yonks. So another 3% is neither here nor there!
Although it may well be old bio fuel low down in my tank that I was trying to burn I have seen umpteen internet articles that suggest that even with fresh bio folks were having problems with mucky blast tubes when they tried it in their boilers. There are many causes for that to happen of
course and I do not blame any one for experimentation but I noticed one guy in the USA who was having problems when he was trying to burn B100 due to the burner and the boiler being clagged up after only a week on the stuff. I noticed straight away that his boiler with the top off looked very much like a Beeston Berkley Gas boiler. I have not had the pleasure of seeing one of such design being fired with oil. I should think that the De-deitrich oil boilers and a similarly designed boiler made in Spain which incidentally is very similar to my Potterton BOA-110 would be suitabe for the Bio fuels. For quite a few years now there are some very nice cast iron boilers coming out of Greece as well.
My aim is to keep the experiment going to avoid the mucky draught tube but the down angled firing seems to have certainly improved my lot....... I notice re overcoming the mucky tube problem is this achieved on the waste oil burners by the very hot end of the tube because most of the ones on you tube seem to be glowing ?????? I've got a bit of ceramic paper coming (3mm) to go between my blast tube and the steel downfiring adaptor I made so as to keep that impliment from getting too hot. I apologise profusely for getting it wrong re the nozzle drip but at the time I really though that was the problem but no it was unburnt fuel for whatever reason.
If all out there are burning biodiesel 100 % without a trace of unburnt fuel in the blast tube I would dearly like to know how or what modifications they have used to achieved it.
Bio deisel burning in pressure jet oilboilers.....
All you clever folks using /burning biodiesel in pressure jet burners.
Have you seen the rocket burner on you tube? As I thought way back or at
least when the dirty turbulator evolved when biodiesel is burnt the new type of
burner uses a differently engineered blast tube which heats the mixed fuel air
within the blast tube but it does not say what exactly the fuel is only to state
that the fuel is Din51603-1 which yet again refers to Kero......
I sent an email to await a reply to the question will the Rocket fuel Burner burn
D1 (diesel and mixtures of Bio and B100..... The email went to MHG heating ---
email address firstname.lastname@example.org.
I am interested what the answers will be. I noticed that several Riello burners
of recent development have very long blast tubes as does this Rocket burner.
Are all these experimenters onto the same idea?
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