A couple of years ago I experimented with using lard or rather lard/oil mixtures (yellow grease) to make biodiesel. It wasnt very sucessful and eventually I settled on a maximum of 10% yellow grease and only in summertime when temps dont fall below 5 degrees C.
I have decided to take this up again for two reasons.
First there are now available commercial winterizing additives specially for biodiesel that may be able to lower the gel point of biodiesel made from yellow grease to acceptable levels.
Second my early experiments were carried out on biodiesel that had to be water washed over several days and then dried.
My current system is totally different. The biodiesel is dried immediately after the glycerol is separated and drywashed straight after that. This system may be more suited to making biodiesel from yellow grease.
The first task is to establish some kind of standards for yellow grease. Yellow grease is a mixture of oil and lard ( animal fat) and can vary a lot. So what I have done is to make up some samples of yellow grease from scratch using new veg oil and new lard (Frytex). My first mixture is 75% oil and 25% lard (by weight) I warmed the two ingredients up to 60C and stirred them thoroughly. I filled a small glass jar with this mixture, put a teaspoon in it and placed it in the fridge for a few hours(7 degrees C)
This mixture which Im going to call L25, when cooled, resembles the consistency of runny honey. You can stir it quite easily and when you take the spoon out the L25 runs off the spoon in a stream for a couple of seconds and then drips.
Im going to repeat this teaspoon test for L50 and L75 so that we can all test and recognize yellow grease of different consistencies.
Im also going to make small batches of biodiesel from these different greases and treat them with cold flow improvers to see can I achieve a usable fuel.
As always everyone is welcome to replicate these experiments to make sure I dont make any stupid mistakes and also any comments are welcome.This message has been edited. Last edited by: imakebiodiesel,
Great start John to this new thread and one I'm sure that a lot of people including myself will find interesting and informative. As always you lead the way with these ground breaking experiments, you are the master and we are your attentive pupils. As we are all aware good oil is gone very scarce and we are been forced to turn to marginal sources to make up the shortfall. Personally I have a lot of crap lard/grease but am glad now that I held onto it as it looks like we can turn it into a useful fuel source albeit with a lower yield than from traditional good oil. I placed an order for coldflow with Adrian from Oily Bits last Friday and have 20 litres of 402 ordered. This is way more than I need but the carriage is no more than for smaller quantities so I can offload 10 or 15 litres to whoever wants to go down this road. Just a reminder to anyone out there who intends to do acid base from high titrating oil that I have a constant supply of 205 lt. stainless drums which are recommended for this process. They are €80 each, you collect
Im going to revise my description of L25. It really needs to cool overnight in the fridge to be accurate. After that time it has the consistency of baby food. It can be stirred but feels thick. It is moist and when you lift out a spoonfull it tends to stick to the spoon. Im going to make a short video of the three types L25, L50 and L75. and post it on youtube. Ill let you know when it is uploaded.
Crazyhorse, I was going to order 5 litres of Coldflow 402 myself but it would make more sense to get it from you. When it arrives could you post me a litre?
A lot of people have been asking me about biodiesel as a replacement for kerosene in central heating burners. With your background and experience you should open a new thread so that we can pool our experiences.
Great idea IMB, I'll be following your progress with interest. I've a lot of yellow grease/lard built up myself. I think i'll try and process some in my next batch. Crazyhorse, I'll take a litre of the Coldflow 402 as well if you've got it please. Let me know price in total including postage.
OK Imake that thread is started now so comments and responces welcome............I have to get back to Adrian in Oily Bits in Dorset UK tomorrow Monday as when I rang him back on Friday he was actually out and I left my order on his message service so just gonna double check that he received it and make payment. When I spoke with him on Thursday he confirmed that the Coldflow 402 is in stock and ready to despatch.... so it should be with me by end of week..........One thing worth remembering about buying any goods in the UK and currency conversion rates is that your credit card company and bank will put an additional levy on the transaction. Last week I bought goods from one UK company totalling £737 sterling. When you convert this to euro with someone like X/E currency convertors they will give you the true rate on the day which was €884.94, however when I checked my card 30 mins after the transaction went through my c/c card company Mastercard had hopped another 37.76 euro on top of the rate which needless to say I was not one bit happy about. I rung my c/c providers Swirl and complained but was told that they had no control over this and that what occured was common practise withg all the financial institutions. To me it is plain and simple robbery as they already charge a processing fee for the transaction anyway so the c/c card company get a bite out of you and the finance house as well. They are in my opinion the real criminals in our society and this mhas been proven time and time again...........Anyway its just a warning and something to bear in mind, things are not always as black and white as they appear on paper...........
I know most places charge a 2% for the convenience of using a credit card but that would only cost 17.7. that 37 euro was a bit rough and I would have complained too.
Imake-good thread, I take it there's not a weight difference between pure oil and lard then you could simply measure the weight and work out it's purity like we do for methanol.
suppose it would be impossible to weigh wvo because of contaminants,water etc.
I have 60 litres of thick yellow oil from a local grammar school that I was keeping for summer,They say they use oil but I think it probably long life 'prep'type oil.
will give you a cubie along with the yellow grease I've been gathering for you.
Your right,if we're going to start using a coldflow type product,we need to have some sort of guide so we know how roughly how much yellow grease were looking at so we all all singing from the same sheet.
Sorry this message is out of topic for the thread.
Crazyhorse I sent you a PM a couple of weeks ago about propane bottle oil stove, did u get it?
I've PM'd a few people over time and it seems that they are not receiving the messages
Hello Thierry, Yes I got your PM some time ago, Ive been meaning to get back to you on this as I am very keen to follow this topic up and even arrange a site visit so as i CAN look at the boiler/.burner in action. Apologies for not getting back to you sooner but I have been hopping and trotting over and back to the UK for the last while and trying to keep a handle on things at home at the same time. Again rushing as usual but as I have your phone number I will ring you and we can chat and maybe arrage a meeting and exchange a few ideas soon.
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I wanted to post these pictures of the same sample of BD, one is straight out of the fridge, the other has been in the freezer for an hour. This would not happen with my normal BD but I made a mistake with my new settling drums.
The idea was to fill 220 liter drums with WVO and tap of the grease, then pump good oil into my processor. I thought it worked well but the sketch below shows what happened.
The grease was sucked into the good oil stream and into the processor.
The BD tested well, 97+ conversion, low soap, dry and no problems in the car.
I hope this shows what we are dealing with here and what can happen is mistakes are made.
A word of caution on titration, this batch titrated betweeen 2 and 2.5 with one at 3, I did five titrations in all and settled with 2.5 and put the 3 down as contamination but may be due to settling of the oil and grease. I drew off a liter of WVO and left to cool for half an hour as normal. My oil normally titrates at 2 consistantly.
I processed my L25 today. because it was new oil and lard it titrated at .5. It processed easily and after I separated the glycerol I heated it to 125C for about 1 hour to drive off any methanol and water. I didnt drywash it as I didnt want to mess up my drywash cartridge so I added 10% petrol mixed it up well and left it to settle.
Tonight the temp is 3.5C and Im seeing the beginning of clouding, little snow flakes floating in the otherwise clear biodiesel.
Crazy horse has ordered some coldflow 402 and is going to send me some. I will repeat this experiment with the additive and see if it does any better.
maybe I've misunderstood .
why add 10% petrol?That would have acted like coldflow and lowered the gel #point.
would it not be better to find out what temp it starts to naturally gel,without additives then repeat the process at same temp using the coldflow to see what the difference is and note how much lower you can bring down the temperature using coldflow before starts to gel again.
You didnt misunderstand, I just didnt explain properly. I mixed 10% petrol into half of the sample and left the other half untreated. This morning the crystalized part of the bio has settled to the bottom and the top looks nice and clear in both samples. The layer of crystalized stuff is a bit smaller in the jar treated with petrol, but not much.
Of course some of this stuff may be soap as Im using heat and settle rather than my drywash. Toby Hatchet has more experience with heat and settle than I have, if you read this Toby, how much soap would you expect to fall out in 24 hours?
I couldn't give you an exact quantity but with well demethed Bio made from good dry oil the soap settles out very fast.
On my rig I'd say the top 30-40 ltrs on the 205ltr drum to be nice and clean after 24hrs.
Also, I seem to be getting a lot less soap with no titration batches.
2003 VW T5 1.9Tdi
2000 Saab 93 2.2Tid
1990 VW T25 camper 1.9D
All on B100
Just to let anyone interested in Coldflow 402 that I will be in a position to supply 1 lt. containers from next week. Of course you can also purchase direct from Oily Bits if you want but I can supply the 1 lt bottle for €35, this includes trackable post and packing. The same quantity from Oily Bits with delivery and euro conversion works out at €54.82. Its estimated that one litre of coldflow 402 will treat 1000 litres of Bio made from Yellow Grease. Anyone want a bottle send P/O to John Regan, Ballymorris, Granard, Co. Longford.
Put my name on a litre John.
Toby I think most of what Ive got in the bottom of this sample is crystallized biodiesel. Its less than 10% of the volume of the bottle and its a dirty gray colour. The biodiesel above is a little hazy but otherwise clear. The petrol seems to have made very little difference to the amount of settled material but the real test will be when I test the liquid for cloud and gel point after a few more days settlement.
But already the result looks hopeful.
Another method I want to investigate is cold filtering. This is where biodiesel made from yellow grease with additives such as petrol or coldflow is passed through a refrigerated filter sock. the liquid that passes through the filter is ok for winter use. The contents of the filter is set aside for summer use. By the look of this first sample 85-90% of this sample would pass for mild winter use.
Yeah, the cold filtering is interesting and a lot of fellas are experimenting with this to remove HMPEs (high melt point esters).
I get these forming on the sides of the settling drum when it's very cold and the feed stock was fatty.
They form as sort of clumps of soft beads that can be scraped off the sides.
these can be a real problem as they'll form and block fuel lines when the temperature drops.
There's still a lot of research going to why they form and how to prevent them.
Some chaps are chilling their settling drums to force there formation so they can be filtered out.
2003 VW T5 1.9Tdi
2000 Saab 93 2.2Tid
1990 VW T25 camper 1.9D
All on B100
I've been cold filtering my fuel for two years now and I'd say the experiment is successful. No more clogged screens and filters on the truck.
john, i'll take a bottle too. your not to far away from me so i can collect, cheers
No problems lad's , I'll post on here when I get my stock in. Someone made a comment about reclaimed methanol not being all that suitable for Bio processed by A/E. Not being all that well up on the sceince of such liquids can someone expand on this topic please before we commit to purchasing IBC of 1000 lts from Soltec.
John I'll collect a bottle from you next week when we meet up if that's ok.
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