BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel Connections  Hop To Forums  Ireland Biodiesel    Drying biodiesel in a damp climate.
Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 22

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Drying biodiesel in a damp climate.
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by imakebiodiesel:
quote:
Reply

Gerard b, something is wrong and I suspect it is your plastic cup. I originally used a plastic cup because I was concerned about the pressure inside a glass vessel. The pressure turned out to be less than 1psi so the jam jar worked fine.
The plastic cup can malfunction in 2 ways. First when screwing it closed you can compress the air inside giving a high reading, second the vessel can expand under compression giving a low reading. both effects lead to inconsistent readings. An ordinary glass jam jar is best, one that the 100ml sample roughly half fills.

if you put your 100g of bio into your test jar without carbide and screw on the lid compressing the air a little, the little bit pressure raised on your manometer would give you your 0ppm mark and this amount should be subtracted from the 500ppm and 2000ppm mark, does that make sense?
i'm planning on using a coffee jar, i have plenty of them, i drink coffee but i dont eat jam Smile
 
Location: meath/ cavan | Registered: April 17, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Imake - If this new way of drying works,This will mean we can do all our demething and drying together instead of in 2 parts ??

Your original dry wash schedule after processing was:

After 12 hrs remove glcerol
DEMETH- Heat bio to 65c while blowing COLD air over drying attachment(Computer fan) 2/3 hrs to demeth
DRYING- once bio is 65c blow HOT air over attachment for 2 1/2 hrs to de water
Allow to cool below 30c then dry filter.


But NOW I plan to heat bio to 65 while at the same time blowing COLD air over drying attachment (same as demething) and bubbling air up from bottom of processor for up to 4 hours. (Both fan and aquarium pump will draw air through silica gel )

This technique should both demeth and dry at same time.(hopefully )
 
Location: County down, Northern Ireland | Registered: August 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Dont use the bubbler when the immersion is on for 2 reasons. If the tube even comes close to the element it will melt. More seriously it would introduce air to methanol vapour at above its flash point.
Continue to demeth as before and introduce the bubbler after the immersion is switched off.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Oh yes I see what you mean- Introducing air, flammable vapours and a heat source is not a good mix !

what was I thinking...

Cheers for that .
 
Location: County down, Northern Ireland | Registered: August 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
[QUOTE]Originally posted by imakebiodiesel:
Dont use the bubbler when the immersion is on for 2 reasons. If the tube even comes close to the element it will melt.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

How about using a small copper pipe like break pipe for a car 1/8". and put your pump and immersion on a timer or thermostat, to switch immersion off and pump on. It might need some fine tuning but I think it could work.

It could save you 4 to 5 hours standing around.
 
Location: Offaly, Ireland | Registered: June 04, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Aidan- was thinking along same lines earlier .

I've made bubblers out of all sorts of things.

The fan would be on cold the entire time but You would need the pump and heater on separate switches with the heater to turn off and bubblier to turn on after a set time.

Or it might be just easier/safer to just pop in after an hr or so and do it yourself.
 
Location: County down, Northern Ireland | Registered: August 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Hi Trigger
What I'm trying to do is automate my unit as much as possible so I don't have to hang around so much. There is only so much you can automate and I think this is one of them. I've been warned not to try to automate to much of it. Some of the process has to be maned.

I'm just a beginner with this but I'll have to give it a go.

How much air should the pump supply? The one I ordered will supply 1.6 l/min thru a 10mm hose.
 
Location: Offaly, Ireland | Registered: June 04, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The air pimp doesn't have to give out a exact amount of air per minute .

I just used a aquarium pump and tubing which I had lying about from water washing that gives out about 3/4 psi .

The tubing is coiled at the end with pins holes to let out air and an old socket to weight it down

 
Location: County down, Northern Ireland | Registered: August 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
So hows things going with drying drying the bio diesel.

I'm gona make a start on my dryer tomorrow any new tips
 
Location: Offaly, Ireland | Registered: June 04, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Sorry Aidan, haven't been about much.

I dried my biodiesel for the second time using the new technique a few weeks ago,I've asked imake to test a sample for water content and then I'll share the findings on here,
We are beginning think that surrounding humidity may still have an affect on drying times.

Was talking to a old guy last night that made biodiesel by just dewatering the oil,heating to 65,then dumping the methoxide on top and mixed for 2 hours.

He didn't know what a 3/27 conversion test or soap shake test was.

But he must be doing something right cos he washes by emptying a watering can of water into his processor then turns on the pump to mix the bio/water together and he's never had an emulsion !

I asked how he knew the bio was dry and he said he could tell by looking at it. Roll Eyes
 
Location: County down, Northern Ireland | Registered: August 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Sorry about the delay in doing the test. We have been very busy here all week. I tested the sample taken after 4 hours drying and it measures 350ppm so thats another great result. I wont bother test ing the other sample because Im a bit low on calcium carbide and I dont want to run out before fresh supplies arrive. Some of my customers are rightly paranoid about water content and wont start to use a batch until they get the results from me.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Reply

I did a batch by the 2 stage method at the weekend. It all went well and when finished processing was showing no dropout with the 30/270 test. I dried it yesterday for 8 hours (since its using next to no energy i feel I may as well dry for as long as long as 8 hours.) Water content read 210ppm.
This is my third batch using this method and Im feeling confident that it will work irrespective of weather conditions.

For all of you who are using the Carbide Manometer to measure water content you should look at a new , and much easier, way of calibrating the test. It was developed by Rickdatech here on the forum and is posted on his site make-biodiesel.org
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Sorry for the late reply (she keeps me busy ! )

My 2nd attempt to dry bio by this method was also successful and after just 4 hours drying and it measured 350ppm which is pretty good result (cheers imake for testing)

Next time I'll dry for longer as the cold air fan and pump uses little energy so I'd might as well try and get it below 300ppm.

Just some other facts that I noted on the day of drying:

Biodiesel(2-stage)conversion 98%+(no visible drop out in 30/270 test)
Temperature 12.1

Humidity before drying was 69%
After 2 hrs 81%
After 4 hrs 74% (My processor is inside my garage)

DEMETHING-Heat bio to 65 degrees while blowing COLD air onto drying attachment.
Biodiesel start temperature 23 degrees(36 hrs after processing)
after 1 hr 45
after 2hrs 62
methanol smell dispersed after 1 hr

DRYING-Blowing cold air over drying attachment while bubbling dry air through biodiesel(both fan and air pump taking DRY air through a bag of silica gel)
End temperature after 4 hrs drying was 35 degrees
 
Location: County down, Northern Ireland | Registered: August 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hi all,

Have to say thanks to Trigger and IMB for developing this drier. I just thought I'd put in my experience with it.

I made the dryer as I saw IMB's.

I two stage processed, finished with a 2% water wash.

After 15 mins I drained off one cubie of glycerol.

The Bio was still at 58 degrees and turned on the drier.

After half an hour I was sure that it was de-methed as water content had gone down so turned on the heater untill the temperature was back up to 65 degrees. (aquarium pump removed). One hour further drying and water was down to about 700 ppm.

Feeling really good I left the drier on overnight to get it bone dry and for remainder of glyc to settle.

(I should point out the reason for drying right after processing is that I read somewhere more soap and glycerol drops out of de-methed BD and so reduces any potential problems with the drywash and residual glycerol. Plus the wash medium may last longer. Please inform me if this is false.)

In the morning I removed the remainder of the glycerol and proceeded to dry wash.

I now tested for water and to my suprise it was off the scale. Because I left the dryer on for so long (12 hours or more) in a damp shed the silica must have become saturated which in turn soaked by batch.!

Lesson learnt here.
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The mistake at the very end does not mean that the rest of the process did not work. Taking off glycerol soon after the second stage is an interesting idea but I think 15 minutes was too soon. Perhaps an hour or even two might be better.
Silica gel will certainly saturate quite quickly in a damp atmosphere. Its hard to judge how long that might take. There are some silica gels which change colour when saturated but these are more expensive and more difficult to get. I think 6 hours drying time should reduce the water content of the biodiesel to under 300ppm and not run the risk of saturating the silica gel.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The process work for sure,

In the future I plan to use indicating silica gel. I came across some by accident at work. This gel comes in small beads which are orange in colour and turn green when saturated. They can be regenerated. www.envirogel.co.uk is the website. I am sending IMB some to experiment with as they don't seem to sell small quantities.

I plan to half fill a 100mm diameter X 200 high plastic pipe with this new gel. A sight gauge to judge when the silica is nearly spent will be fitted. The top will be fitted with a mushroom or 'china mans hat' to make sure that all air that meets the silica will end up in the container with the fan and pump.

I have just ordered a new fan. This one is 120mm diameter and is rated at 110 cubic feet a minute which I think is about three times the standard P.C fan. May speed things up further.
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Ninja came up with an interesting way to dry his biodiesel. He did not heat his biodiesel, instead he heated the air he pumped in by heating up a length of steel pipe with a heat gun and connecting his air line to it. As an experimental setup it worked and he is now repeating it to make sure. A heat gun is not the most efficient way to do this so Ive drawn up an alternative to consider.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Sounds like a great idea. Just a bit confused, are you planning to pump air up through the bottom drain? how will oil not flow back into the preheater?

I am assuming you are using an aquarium pump not compressor.
 
Location: Cork | Registered: December 05, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Without some kind of check valve it would, and the hot air would probably damage a check valve. So here is an alternative layout.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
This setup would be best used with a small compressor set to run very low or a 12 tyre inflator (12 euro Lidl) set to run very slowly with a dc motor controller (20 euro Ebay).
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
What you are suggesting is a hot air bubbler, therefore I think the bottom of the pipe should bubble the air from as large an area as possible, (described many times before.) Jim.
 
Location: Cape Town | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2 3 4 5 ... 22 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel Connections  Hop To Forums  Ireland Biodiesel    Drying biodiesel in a damp climate.

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014