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Methanol in Ireland??
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I am interested in producing biodiesel and want to start by producing 1 ltr batches but I am finding it difficult to source small amounts of methanol (25ltrs). Any help would be appreciated.
 
Registered: April 02, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi
Just wondering if you ever got started with your biodiesel project. I'm looking into it and wondered if you had any ifo to help. Is it best to make a plant or purchase a ready made jobbie?
I'm in Ballycotton Co Cork.
 
Location: Ballycotton County Cork | Registered: November 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi,
I make 150 litres of biodiesel every two weeks so I always have supplies of methanol and NaOH. Im happy to supply 20 litres to any one getting started. I can also put you in touch with various bulk suppliers in Ireland.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i pay 25 euro for 25 liters of methanol i make 150lts of biodiesel
about 1.2kg of naoh
cant use the bio fast enough once you get into a routine


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thats a good price for a small quantity. I buy my methanol in Central Chemical Supplies,in County Down. They charge £1 (150cents) per litre for a 25 litre carboy. If you buy 1000 litres the price is 29 pence(45cents) per litre. 1000 litres lasts me more than a year.
Ive just changed over to using the two stage base/base method which uses only 18 litres of methanol per 100 litres of oil. The biodiesel is better as well.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I usually buy two 25lt drums much easier for me this way.
I mix 1kg of Naoh with each and just let them there giving them a kick and a shack every now and then
When it comes to making a batch of bio; if I need to add more Naoh’ it doesn’t take to long to dissolve the Naoh in the methanol.
18lt of met in 100lt of oil that’s a good saving especially if the bio is good quality
I will definitely try the base/base method next time
Do you titrate a sample or use use 6.25gr per litre of oil?
Have you had any emulsions’ I had some whoppers’ at the start when I first started making bio
I use some of the glycerine for cleaning the gutters and around the garage better that any soap or washing up liquid

Cool


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Where do you get your methanol from?
I do titrate because my oil supply is a bit variable but 9 times out of 10 6.25 gms per litre would be right.
Funny you should mention emulsions. Ive never had any significant emulsion problems until last week. Ive just built a new wash tank to wash 300 litres at a time. It is 8 feet tall and I couldnt fill it by gravity from my rainwater tank so I pumped the water in. Big mistake. It took 4 days of gentle heat to break it the emulsion.
I saw somewhere on this forum that tarmac contractors can use glycerol to spray the inside of tanks and dumper trucks to stop the tar sticking. Im going to look into that. Ive made soap, cleaned paving etc. but I still have too much.
What sort of setup have you?
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I get methanol from a bloke who works in a chemical plant.
Don’t think the other half would be to happy having 200lt stored in the garage.
The set up that I have; I do everything in one barrel ;dewater the oil mix the methanol and Noah; mix settle and drain off the glycerine and wash .
It’s lasted tree years now.
I have just recently changed some of the pipe work as I had an oil spill.
I had heated the oil up to 90 degrees c and while it was settling and waiting for the water to drop out
one of my flexible hoses came louse’ 150lt of oil all over the garage floor.
What a mess
Ah well; all clouds have a silver lining; made me think about the system I had; took two days to clean the floor of the garage .
Guess I built the processor for about 40euro everything is from the scrap yard; all I had to buy was a temperature gage; and a flange’ for the emersion heating element’ following week came across two temperature gages that would have done .



Smile


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Your processor looks great, nice and compact. I assume there is a steel oildrum under all that bubble wrap. I use a separate wash tank but then I have plenty of space.
I hate to think of the mess 150 litres of oil could make.
How do you heat your oil, I use an industrial immersion heater that screws straight into the 2" BSP opening in the oil drum. It was expensive but works reliably and was easy to fit.
I am waiting for delivery of static pipe mixers that I ordered from US. They are like a plastic corkscrew which is inserted into the flexible pipe and it mixes any liquids which pass through it. Biodiesel brewers in the States swear by them. The UK supplier quoted me nearly 70 pounds for one but I found them for sale on Ebay, brand new, for about 5 euro each. I bought 5 so if you want to try one out be my guest.

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Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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John ? how it going there Smile
Have you a picture of your new setup 300lt ?
The bubble rap is infacta Cool industrial type insulation very expensive; the bit I used fell of a roof and landed in my garage.
As for heating the oil it’s an household emersion' fitted a flange for it to screw into’ I can set the temperature 50 60 70 80 degs C very handy. I fitted it low down on the right hand side.
Got that from the scrap ward two elements heats the oil in a couples of hours.
Static mixer there is about four inches of copper’ just above the pump,
Inside there is a static mixer diy job made out of a ½ bit of copper
I just copied one as best I could from pictures on the web’ I have been using this set up for about two years now.
Just above and to the left you can see my still I used this a few times for recovering methanol .
I haven’t used it for a while to much hassle .
I have been following a tread on the forum and have started making a few changes to my set up
Hope this link works http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/919605551/m/8961074381/p/1
I have made a venturi and fitted it works? boy was I surprised ?
Maybe not as good as it should but it dose create a vacuum; and certainly would make mixing a batch much more vigorous .
All the info and links are in this tread .
There is also a description of a still condenser’ I made one these to day; this will make methanol recovery mush easier and will work in conjunction with the venturi.


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You are way ahead of me on the pipe mixer but if you want to try out one of these ones I will have them next week.
The link about the venturi is fantastic. Since my new 300 litre reactor is 8 feet tall, gravity supply of methoxide has become a bit of a problem. Ever tried climbing a wobbly step ladder with 25 litres of methanol and caustic soda in your arms? The venturi made from the plumbing tee is the solution, Im going out to my workshop to make one now. The circulation pipe on my reactor is 1" qualpex and I dont want to restrict that so I may place the venturi on a bypass pipe. Thanks for the link, God bless information sharing on the internet. I dont have a picture of my new outfit yet, Ill take one and send it to you in the next couple of days. If your are passing Lismore call in to see us. My mobile number is 086 3169230.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Is your system working under pressure? or is it vented to atmosphere . Is your system working under pressure? or is it vented to atmosphere . Eek
The pipe work in your system that you have looks similar to mine.
So adding your methanol; you should be able to add it from a height just above your pump there should be no need to have it above the mixer.
Regulating your valve on the return to the pump should suck the methanol into the stream .
that’s the way mine works; I will take a pick of my setup and post it.
This system works for me; and my motto is if it’s not broken don’t fix it.
The venturi thingamajig; caught my eye; with graham Laming system’ I feel I can recover meth after the reaction easily’ up the temperature to 80 or 90 C; just after the reaction recover the meth and do a prewash’ settle and bobs your uncle.
Here’s a few pictures of my new setup
I will try and post them hope this works







first atempt dident work


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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My reactor is closed but not pressurised, I open the vent valve a little when adding the methoxide and then close it during circulation.
I have tried distilling the leftover methanol but found it a lot of hassle. I like the design of your condenser, very elegant.
I made a venturi yesterday and it really works. I ran the garden hose thro' it and could feel good suction, I cant wait to do my next batch and test it for real.
How are you finding wvo supply. Frylite did a blitz in Dungarvan Cappoquin and Lismore recently so I lost a couple of my suppliers. I still have enough to run the car but I had planned to expand a bit with the larger reactor. My Refleks stove burns 120 litres a month so I suppose I better get out there find some new sources.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Frylite

I collect svo once every two weeks about 70 lt
I have plenty in that.
I have 200 lt drum, of bio diesel that I use in the car; every time I make a batch I top it up; and put the rest into the home heating tank ‘mixed with kerosene boiler works ok
I use more bio during the summer going up and down to Kerry .
I make a batch one a month on average
Glad your venturi works. I tried to fabricate one; like the one in the forum tapping a length of copper ,
Not a hope fair play to anyone who can .
I made a lager one today out ¾ inch copper hoping to create more vacuum; It didn’t make much difference .
It will pull vapour for the still; but wont lift methanol’ the distance from the floor the reactor .
I will continue to add the methanol the way I used to.
Hope you have luck getting enough svo
When you use the base/base method ; dose the glycerol harden from the first mix.
if I want to recover the methanol’ I will have add this back into the second stage; after the reaction time is complete .
I am not sure if this will work though.
are you the only Déise making bio
Big Grin


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Funny enough the glycerol hasn't gelled at all. I have been discussing this on another thread. If you want to do a 5% water wash or methanol recovery you have to put the first batch of glycerol back in to the reactor at the end of the reaction. Look up base/base 5% prewash under Biodiesel Quality. Have you tried the 3/27 test? Im not sure I want to know how substandard my fuel is, my Merc is so tolerant of fuel it hardly matters.
As a "blow in" I dont know if I qualify as a Deise (How did you get a fada in there?), but yes, I think I am the only one making biodiesel.
That would make a great domain name, biodeise.com, maybe I should grab it while it is still available.

Mercedes 250D
Refleks 66MK oilstove in my home
Alaska oilstove in my workshop

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Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Alaska oilstove

PRESS CONTROL ALT é it only works with some letters ó é á
I cant remember where I learnt that?
biodeise.com you would have to leave out the fadda Razz Razz

I finely finished the modifications’ to the processor
It is now ‘based on GL processor; doesn’t look anything like his’ but works almost the same Cool
It should make dewatering oil’ and the recovering of methanol ;much easier
Do you find it necessary to let the first mix stand for 12 hours to remove the glycerine
Before adding the remainder of the methanol ;will it make much of a difference ?
I usually only wait about an hour or so for the glycerine to drop out; before I do my first wash.
I might add between; five to ten litres’ of water.
I look for a change in the mix; adding water slowly this first wash or prewash . I do to all my batches the bio is still at 60 degree’s or so; less chance of making an emulsion.
I will leave this settle for a couple of hours; them mist wash with a garden hose .
After the pre wash and the first mist wash I really give it holly to clean it.
I have never tested the final product; it doesn’t bother the Skoda superb tdi so who am I to argue Razz Big Grin.
Go on give us a look at the inside of the barrel with the Alaska oil stove Eek
I am in the design stage of building a Becket type burner for my garage came across a 200lt dual coil cylinder for twenty Euro had a few pinholes in it easy to repair.
So with the burner and the solar panel also in design stage I will have hot water in the garage Smile Smile.


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Here is the picture of the Alaska stove, I turned it down for ten minutes and then opened the lid on top. I still feel most of the heat is escaping up the flue so Im thinking maybe a water coil would be a good idea.
Ive been using a home built solar panel for 11 years and I has been brilliant. Ive just built a new one based on CAT,s heat fin design but havnt installed it yet.

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Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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In answer to your questions about my procedure, I add 80% of the methanol with 90% of the NaOH. I circulate for 2 hours, let it settle for 1 hour and drain off the glycerol. Then I add the rest of the methanol and the NaOH and circulate for 1 more hour. I add a 2% water prewash, circulate for 15 mins and let it settle overnight. next day I drain off the last of the glycerol, transfer the biodiesel to the wash tank. I do 4 bubble washes at 25 degrees C. They last 1 hour, 2 hours 4 hours and 6 hours.

The transesterification process starts at 64 degrees and drops to about 50 by the end. I will improve the insulation on the pipes to reduce heat loss. It was never a problem when I used a single stage process.

The double stage process does take considerably longer but I am in my workshop all day anyway so it doesn't matter to me.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/2891057622/8.12.07_014.jpg
Great setup you have there
Judging from the image above .
If you came across the coil from a high recovery cylinder; it should nearly fit inside the barrel.
It wont effect the heat output from the heater; since you will be taking heat that would be going up the flu .
Just a thought
I will re read your post next time I process some waste vegetable oil
Any tips on the solar panel ‘it would much appreciated’ I did build one a couple of years back; out of flattened copper cylinders and ½ inch pipe. never got onto the roof; frost got at it and burst a couple of the pipes
I know should have drained it properly after I tested it Roll Eyes .
My youngest lad is serving his time in sheet metal.
So next plan is to salvage some aluminium and cut it into fins for the panel .
If I am ever down your way I have to call in me nose is killing me Razz Razz


If it’s not broken don’t fix it if you do you’ll break it.

The black dog can be beaten
 
Location: peoples republic of cork ireland | Registered: November 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I got my static mixers in the post yesterday and installed them. They slip neatly into 1" qualpex pipe and wont go past the brass inserts. I have my venturi installed as well so I am ready to go. I should have enough oil for a batch this weekend.

I have attached a copy of the plans for my solar water heater, It sounds very like the one you described. I know it isnt environmentally correct to say this but I think commercial solar panels are a bad joke. At current prices their payback period is about 50 years. People would be better to spend the money on extra insulation, but then your neighbours wouldnt see how green you are.
 
Location: Lismore Ireland | Registered: November 25, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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