Hi guys,
just wanted to confirm what license i need apart from the waste carrier license which cost around £130.

for some reason i am also thinking up a 'waste management license'
and another license that allows me to mix chemicals to produce bd.

are these a figure of my imagination or do they actually exist?

there is a good chance that i will be producing commercially seeing as i have a shed load of veg oil available to me so might aswell

what about health and safety, what does this entail? i know that i have to produce in an area that has a volume of 110% of my reator and is able to enclose any spillages or leaks!

anytihng else? eg safety power off switches, fire exits, electrics?

thanks very much,
Mubs

Mubs, theres a big difference between the legislation required for biodiesel production in your garden shed for your own use and whats required for commercial production. The latter is likely to see the environmental agency swamp you with demands for bunded tanks, special drains, 'brown-field' premises, various 'hazardous substances' handling certificates and health and safety stuff.

I bought the £140 carriers licence, but afterwards I had a visit from the environmental people who asked why I was storing the oil! I said I'm only storing it until I have enough to make a batch and convert it. They said I needed a storage licence too. However, at least that one was free, and lets me keep up to 200 litres of oil in my shed. But if you're thinking of a larger scale operation it wont be so straightforward.

BTW, I'm in Scotland, which has a different environmental agency, but I dont think the rules are much different.

yeah thanks for the advice mate.
but thats what i would like to know.
what exactly do i need to do?

i read about bunded tanks and that shoouldnt be problem but its just the other stuff that i dont know about
thanks in advance
Mubs

you could get in touch with the EA and tell them what you intend to do - they should be able to tell you exactly what you need to do (tho they can give wrong advice, as I've found out), but at least that way they're less likely to be hard on you if you slip up later...

or you can see if you can find someone who's running a similar set up to what you're planning for advice (tho far enough away so as not to be a competitor!) - should be a few of these guys in the UK on the forum

- good luck

cheers mate,
im looking forward to hearing other peoples descriptions.
btw who are the EA and where cna i find them lol

EA is the Environmental Agency:

http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/

Here in Scotland its the Scottish Environmental Protection Agency (SEPA).

haha.
spoke to a friend who produces commercially, and he said that i dont need to worry about any of it. lol

He's taking a chance then

calle dup the hse and ea today.
apart from the 150£ waste carriers license ea only want me to register (free) for a low risk waste exemption permit

hse want apex electrics (which is a pain in the ass as i spotted the perfect pump and found that it isnt apex ready AAAAGH!!)
to avoid ignition of meth vapours
and proper disposal of glycerol.
apart from that they are sound.

You need to have a word with HCII, he'll put you right.
From what he says it cost 10's of thousands to get a commercial plant up and running. Complying with all the rules, regulations and licienes are the most expensive parts.
One other thing, small commercial producers are closing down at a fair old rate, no profit to be made.

quote:

Originally posted by Mubs:
calle dup the hse and ea today.
apart from the 150£ waste carriers license ea only want me to register (free) for a low risk waste exemption permit

Did you tell the EA that you where, a) setting up a commercial operation and b) setting it up in the back of your brother's car repair shop. If you did then I believe the EA gave you bad advice. If you are setting up a commercial operation then you are likely to need an Environmental Permit (EP, formerly known as an IPPC permit) this part will cost you a few thousand in fees as James mentioned above.

quote:

hse want apex electrics (which is a pain in the ass as i spotted the perfect pump and found that it isnt apex ready AAAAGH!!)
to avoid ignition of meth vapours
and proper disposal of glycerol.
apart from that they are sound.

What they said was ATEX not apex and this is just a small part of it. ATEX equipment is very expensive but it also has to be installed correctly and then signed off by an "ATEX competent person" this immediately kills off your idea in your other thread of trying to run two heating elements from a single plug.
In the UK the European ATEX directive is combined with other directives to create a set of regulations called DSEAR, (Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations) to comply you will need lots of paperwork and some expensive equipment. What this means is that you need a big enough capacity plant to be able to pay back all of these up front and ongoing costs. If you are only talking about a couple of hundred litres at a time you are simply never going to make it pay.

I've had lots of communication with the EA and they state that for homebrewing you only need to register to store and process your oil, it's free to register.

You don't need waste carriers licence but the EA advise you should issue a waste transfer notice (WTN)to those who supply you with oil. The Environment Agency say they haven't got the resources to prosecute folk collecting and storing wvo for personal biofuel use, but they say you should at minimum give a WTN so they know your supplier isn't putting it down the drain.

Just download the waste Transfer note (WTN) from my website
http://www.biofuel-uk.net/wtn.doc
and give them a copy as their proof of duty of care.

Chug

thanks mate,
its not that which seems to be the problem,
its all o fthe health and saftery regulations

Mubs

You have to confirm if you are building a commercial production set up. Some of the answers you have received have assumed you are talking about homebrew. However your initial post mentions that you will potentially be operating on a comercial basis. In which case you will need to comply with a whole other set of rules and regulations.

The other problem is your other thread mentions that you are going to build this plant "in your brother's car repair workshop".

Both of the above suggest to me that you are going to be a commercial processor and will therefore have to comply with all necessary legislation. This is where it gets expensive, you will need ATEX approved equipment, not just the pump. Which means your idea of heating elements is a non starter unless you are using ATEX elements, switches, cables and glands etc. (and they will need to be installed by a competent ATEX electrician, not just a time served sparky)

Also you will likely need an EP (Environmental Permit) which was previously known as an IPPC. Which will cost you thousands of pounds and will involve your brother's car repair business as it is his building you are using. When you spoke to the EA did you mention to them that you may sell your product?

Personally I don't think you will go down this route as the costs involved are far too high for a batch size of only a few hundred litres, you need to be able to make many thousands of litres per week just to be able to cover the set up costs.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Sorry if this looks like a bit of a duplicate of my earlier post but for some reason the previous post took almost two days to actually appear in the thread.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Fuzznag,

ok thanks for all the help guys.
a simple google search for atex heating elements winded me for 6! hehe.

im gonna scrap the idea of going commercial (for now) im going to stay under the 5000 litre annum limit so the hse and ea arent chasing me.

then when i have enough experience i think i'll move onto 1000 litre batches at a time and tackle all of this health and safety business.

i also hear that the price of crude oil is set to double after august so that should help the price of petro-diesel soar.

thanks for your help guys.

quote:

Originally posted by Mubs:
ok thanks for all the help guys.
a simple google search for atex heating elements winded me for 6! hehe.

im gonna scrap the idea of going commercial (for now) im going to stay under the 5000 litre annum limit so the hse and ea arent chasing me.

then when i have enough experience i think i'll move onto 1000 litre batches at a time and tackle all of this health and safety business.

i also hear that the price of crude oil is set to double after august so that should help the price of petro-diesel soar.

thanks for your help guys.

The HSE and EA may still chase you or your brother if you install the plant within his place of work!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Chug:
Just download the waste Transfer note (WTN) from my website
http://www.biofuel-uk.net/wtn.doc
and give them a copy as their proof of duty of care.

Chug

Hi mate,
just wanted to confirm,
who am i giving the wtn to?
is it the ea people (if so how?) or to the person im collecting oil from?

thanks,
Mubs