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Section for BioPro processors
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I would find it highly useful if there were a section devoted to the BioPros. Having information regarding troubleshooting, methods specific to the use of the processors, etc. all in one spot would be great for those that already own the processor or looking into purchasing one. It would save a great deal of time from sifting through posts that deal with processors that I'll never use.
 
Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: November 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is a subject you should bring up with Springboard. They have a forum currently, but it's limited access. It seems like a good idea to make one available for all BioPro users.


"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

George Orwell
 
Registered: June 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm voting again for a section related to just the BioPro's. It's a PIA surfing through appleseed, GL, etc. processor threads looking for BioPro related info. The search works sometimes.

A BioPro section would also hopefully eliminate the useless posts by those that don't have one or are not interested in getting one.
 
Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: November 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Zbrooks,
quote:
It's a PIA surfing through appleseed, GL, etc. processor threads looking for BioPro related info.

Right. But most of the biopro people won't be able to help you trouble shoot, 'cause all they know how to do is push the button Wink

You need the appleseed and other processor type folks to help WHEN things go wrong. Those things are not foolproof. Even when they are working, they don't work that well or consistently, at least from what I have seen.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"Right. But most of the biopro people won't be able to help you trouble shoot, 'cause all they know how to do is push the button"

And that's what us 'dealers' are for!

Give it a rest Andrew - so your saying those of us whom run Biopro's are idiots?

I built / ran a 'home made' system for 3 years before buying my Biopro. I spent more time making bio then I did running my business - buying a Biopro gave me MY time back. You know what? I have had LESS problems making bio with my Biopro, then I ever did with my cone tank system - and in a whole lot smaller package to boot Smile

Just because the Ford 'YOU' bought was a lemon, doesn't mean all Fords are lemons....
 
Location: Melbourne, FL | Registered: December 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jim,

Take it easy. The Wink wink guy is the sure fire way to tell when I am pulling your leg.

OK, so there is a grain of truth in what I said. Part of the BP sales pitch is that you don't have to worry about titration and math and all that BS, right? Who is that aimed at? But, no, not all BP operators are idiots, for sure. Graydon, for one, is a bright guy. Using a BP didn't kill any of his brains cells as far as I know.

By the way, do people have to pass a test to become a BP dealer? Just wondering... Wink


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew M:
Zbrooks,
quote:
It's a PIA surfing through appleseed, GL, etc. processor threads looking for BioPro related info.

Right. But most of the biopro people won't be able to help you trouble shoot, 'cause all they know how to do is push the button Wink

You need the appleseed and other processor type folks to help WHEN things go wrong. Those things are not foolproof. Even when they are working, they don't work that well or consistently, at least from what I have seen.


Andrew - From my understanding, the unit that you have experience with wasn't working properly and that issue has been hashed out on previous threads. You're starting to sound like DCS, saying the same thing, just rewording it. You know more than I do about biodiesel, but many of your posts do nothing for folks like me, such as the two in this thread.

I'm not requesting a section for the BioPro's so I can troubleshoot any problems that might arise. That will be great, if needed, but if I have any issues, I'll ask the guy that knows the answer. I don't need the appleseed folks for anything. Some of them have useful information or answers to random questions that I have, but I'm not going to ask them how to use my BioPro when most of them have never seen or used one. The manual has a lot of info. if something should come up, as well.

I'd like the section to read about other BioPro users experiences (with proper working units), experiments, etc. with the machine. Shaun, how much of a donation is it going to take to make this happen? I can't be the only one who'd like to see this happen.

On the subject of dealers, I'm not sure what the criteria is to become one, but I don't call my dealer for answers and I'll leave it at that.
 
Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: November 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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ZBrooks,

quote:
Andrew - From my understanding, the unit that you have experience with wasn't working properly and that issue has been hashed out on previous threads.


For the record, the guys at AGR told me that the machine worked up to spec. on the first batch and every other batch they ran on it without making any repair. The problems I had with that machine had nothing to do with it being broken. I am just used to a simple design, that for some reason gets better conversion, more consistently, with less methanol.

Sorry if you don't like my posts. I kind of think most of them are pretty helpful. This time I was joking around about the Biopros and BP users. I think it is good the some folks like them. I think it is also good to have some balance/realism in how they are viewed. The sun does not shine from the bottom of that thing. It it does work, for many people much of the time. It may well be the best pre-made system available. Who knows. But, it is far from a perfect machine.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Honestly, Andrew, I wish you had a BioPro. You seem to know what you're doing, you're on the forums a lot, and I believe the information you'd bring forth would be quite valuable. I should clarify an earlier statement: I don't need the appleseed folks, but I can learn a lot from them, just not much specifically concerning the operation of a BioPro.

If it weren't for a machine like the BioPro, I wouldn't be into biodiesel. Time isn't my friend.
 
Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: November 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The fact that the BioPro water washes makes them outdated in my mind, even if they are otherwise about the best thing I have seen. I don't have water in my shop, don't want water in my shop, don't want to have to drag a garden hose to my shop to fill a barrel for the BioPro to suck water from, and then empty the used water later.

Don't want to have to use the extra time and energy to dry my fuel...it started dry from the processor, why wreck that?

And 10x all that in the winter.

When AGR makes a BioPro version that will waterless wash ala GL-1-day, and recover the methanol from the fuel to boot, then I'll take a hard look at the economics of getting one again.

Or in 10 years when I can by a used BP380 one on Ebay for $500 I'll get it and add that stuff myself.
 
Location: Southern WI, USA | Registered: May 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I built a 16'x12' shop specifically for the BioPro. I have a 1" line going to it from a nearby spiket. From there, I have the water going through a filter, water softener, water heater and then to the BioPro with the pressurized water kit. Water is then drained into the sink and down the drain. It works great for me and is very easy to clean things having a sink/faucet at my disposal. All of this is enclosed within 6", heavily insulated walls. Winter should not be a problem.

Drying time isn't an issue for me either because I let the machine run while I'm at work or sleeping.
 
Location: Nampa, ID | Registered: November 19, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Where you could post member experiences in making bio.
 
Location: Oklahoma | Registered: October 27, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I like the valving run to the computer rack, the extra amount of work necessary to achieve that parallel of mounting of the valves, I would think, is a significant amount, but it just end up looking so smooth!

And the wiring tray built onto the wall to keep the cords up out out from underfoot...NICE!
 
Location: Southern WI, USA | Registered: May 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
For the record, the guys at AGR told me that the machine worked up to spec. on the first batch and every other batch they ran on it without making any repair.


Hi Andrew - at the risk of flaring up an old argument, which is truly not my intent, let me reiterate what happened with the machine you are talking about, because I think in the midst of our long drawn out argument on that thread, clear communication got obscured.

The water-out strainer, which we recommend checking and cleaning periodically, had been reinstalled by the customer incorrectly. Based on his description of the symptoms, we determined that he didn't seat the gasket in the strainer body when he screwed it on. Thus, there was an intermittent suction leak, causing issues with the water-out function and resulting in some emulsion/poor drying issues. When we got the machine, to make sure that we were correct, we unscrewed the strainer, made sure the gasket was seated in the strainer body, and then cleaned up the unit and ran few test batches, all of which worked fine.

Whether or not to call this a repair is just somantics. What I meant to communicate to you at the time was simply that the unit itself was functioning properly, meaning that it was working as it was designed. When I told you that there was nothing wrong with the unit, and that we didn't have to repair it, I didn't mean that it was OK for the gasket not to be seated and that intermittent issues with wash water pump-out were normal and per the machine design. It's not designed to make good biodiesel if the water strainer gasket isn't seated, and in this sense, the unit that you have some experience was not functioning to spec. I think all of the arguing between us stemmed from the verbage used. So here's the idea that was meant to be communicated, regardless of the verbage.


Galen Bowen
Senior Mechanical Engineer
Springboard Biodiesel, LLC
Technical Blog:
biodieselisgood.com/tech
 
Location: Chico, CA | Registered: March 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Galen,

quote:
at the risk of flaring up an old argument,


There is that risk. I don't really think of it as an argument, more of slightly disagreeable discussion.

quote:
The water-out strainer, which we recommend checking and cleaning periodically, had been reinstalled by the customer incorrectly.


As I recall, this was never established as a fact. Wasn't it removed during shipping, prior to it getting back to you? So, then it would be impossible to know for sure if it was on right or not when I was using it. It was a while ago, which makes it kind of hard to keep track. Roll Eyes

I what I do recall is having several different problems with the machine, some related to washing and some related to poor conversion. I spoke to several people to trouble shoot it. I do not recall it being suggested the water strainer be checked as a possible cause of the wash issues. I also do not recall any viable explanation for the poor conversion.

Just my experience with the one machine. Frankly I had hoped that you guys would find all sorts of things wrong with the one I had used. Then I could still have gone ahead and become a dealer. I liked the idea. It just did not perform. So I couldn't, in good faith, endorse the thing.

I really don't have an axe to grind about this machine. I do guess that way when everyone else only has positive things to say. I am just reporting what happened as honestly as I can.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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