Hi everyone,

I have a meth. recovery system but have kept a somewhat low profile on it because I know owning and operating a still can be illegal without special permits and such.

My question is does anyone know what the rules and regulations are for Meth. recovery in Ontario, Canada? I have an exciting opportunity to have a feature story on my backyard biodiesel operation aired on Global Television mid-late April. First of all I want to make sure I am legal, and obviously if I'm not then I want to make my operation legal before my equipment goes on Global TV!

Any info would be great! Thanks

Methanol recovery is not the same as distilling from scratch. Besides, most of the laws are based on Ethyl alcohol (for drinking). Needless to say, methanol does not fit in that category.

As a side note, recovering the Methanol is better for the environment.

Thanks probear, that's the logic I had been using up until now and I haven't lost any sleep over having a recovery system, but I want to be absolutely certain before going on TV with it.

I don't see what is so different about a methanol recovery system than a still that could distill ethanol. I COULD probably distill ethanol with my methanol recovery system and just having the "condensing coil" is all it takes to get people worried/making stories. I've even heard rumors in Ontario you're supposed to report having a water distiller!

The laws here on Ethanol are the same for drinking as for fuel, at least they were when an old friend of mine was thrown in jail because he made his own ethanol fuel which you'd NEVER dare drink if you saw his still. lol.

So I'm a little nervous about it right now, and tempted to take my condensing coil off and hide it for the cameras.

I definantly agree that recovering the methanol is better environmentally, but it's no good if I'm in trouble for it.

Very very few poeple even know where my reactor is located.

quote:

Originally posted by Legal Eagle:
Very very few poeple even know where my reactor is located.

Why?
Whats your concern?

Regards,
Jon

Why am I asking? Because I'm going to be showing my system to the news crew from Global Television and will be on air mid-late april. There will probably be hundreds of thousands or millions of people who will look at my equipment on TV.
My concern is that someone will want to shut me down/give biodiesel a bad name/ throw me in jail because I have a methanol recovery system (still) that is illegal.
I don't loose any sleep over it being there but being on TV is a different story.
Unless I KNOW that what I have is legal I think I'll take it out before the news crew arrives.

I wouldn't be too worried if I knew it would only be 30 seconds on air either, but I'm expected to show them my entire system (including making a batch of fuel) and will probably have about 10 minutes of air time on TV. More than enough time for them to show that I have a still.

If anyone can lead me in the right direction about what the actual laws are I'd really appreciate it. I'd love to show them the recovery system as it makes sense to have, but if it's going to buy me jail time or get me shut down it's not worth it.

Thanks

Are you talking about your ecological Methanol condensing recovery unit?

Nobody said anything about a still.....

Hi VWpickup,
My question above was directed at Legal Eagle.

I am not sure about your situation but besides the legalities of the methanol recovery system have you considered other possible issues?
If your rig was purchased as a kit, in order to meet Canadian laws it must be electrically approved for use in Canada (it will have a nameplate with a certification mark) before it can be connected to power. If you wired it yourself you must take out a permit and have it inspected by ESA (www.esasafe.com) to be compliant.
There may be issues with the way the methanol is stored also? If anyone has any information on the Ontario laws regarding the storage of methanol please speak up as I am interested in this also. I inquired about this at a local supplier and he just said that I needed a TDG paper (which you can write up yourself See Here )for transportation only and there is no regs for the storage. I take the suppliers advice with a grain of salt as he didn't seem to have the time to talk with me.
Please let us know when this will air as I would love to see it!
Regards,
Jon

I have kept other issues in mind but I'm only really concerned with the Methanol recovery thing. I rigged up all my own equipment and I suppose it's possible someone could find an issue with something else I have here but this is a personal hobby in my back yard. (although an over-blown hobby )

The story is going to be focused on what I do and how I do it to make my own fuel, and one of the main things I do is the methanol recovery and that's all I'm concerned about because the other things like how the wires running the processor were hooked up are not the focus of the story. Storing the ammount of methanol I have is a good point but I've had no trouble buying it and my home owners insurance company knows all about how we have all this methanol on the property. They said "you can have all the methanol on your property you want, but don't sell the finished fuel or we have to cancel your home insurance." lol, I know it's rediculous- backwards but I'm confident I can legally have everything I have here except this methanol recovery unit.

I want to make some changes to the recovery unit anyways so maybe I will time it so it's all apart when they come.


I'll definantly keep you posted on when it will be on air

Cheers

#1. You are not making methanol only recovering it.
#2. Think long and hard about such media exposure, such things have gone VERY wrong for many good intentioned BDers in the past, as for myself I endeavor to keep my pie hole shut and fly below the radar, any government anywhere exists solely to make your life a living hell.

Fabricator, points taken.

This won't be the first time I've had such media exposure but this will be the first one on TV since I built my Meth. recovery. As I stated above, I'm not worried about anything else in my process, and if anything else I were doing was illegal I'd have been shut down a long time ago.

My motivations are to help raise awareness of biodiesel and a sustainable lifestyle. Keeping under the radar is what some people want and I respect that, but I choose to be seen/heard in the hopes that it will inspire others to live a more sustainable lifestyle. But what I show for the cameras will stop before methanol recovery to keep a good name to what I/we are doing with biodiesel.

Good luck brother.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Heron:

quote:

Originally posted by Legal Eagle:
Very very few poeple even know where my reactor is located.

Why?
Whats your concern?

Regards,
Jon

Privacy. I have a direct line to all kinds of media, print and TV, and the people to "make it all happen", but I am simply not interested.
I've written pieces that have been published in newspapers,I've been on the small screen in news magazines and have been recognised on the streets for my efforts. I just don't want the attention. And THAT sums up my "concern".

VW pickup;
The advise I received a long time ago about doing TV is that in order to take your point home look that camera right in the eye and speak directly to the many thousands of people on the other side of the lenz and glue them to their seats with easy to follow, straight forward information. You control the direction of the event, not the interviewer. You take them where YOU want to go not the other way around.
If they don't like that arrangement it is because they are doing investigative reporting and you are being set up.
If you are in a residential area there are any number of municipal by-laws on the books that they can "get you" on.
Now, if you are dead set on putting your smile in the public eye then start off (and insist that they open their report with this - get it in writting,their word is worth the air it contains) with a reference to Natural Resources Canada's website and the federal government's promotional push for "the one tonne challenge" using biofuels to reduce green house gases and be more environmentally responsible."This is something Mr and Mrs average Canada can do, it is available technology for farms and individuals interested in reducing their negative ecological footprint while contributing to helping Canada and it's future generations breathe cleaner air".
There is a certain amount of gratification in seeing your mug on the tube, but that can be very short lived if the motives of the reporting crew isn't what they have promoted it to be. I've known people who were given a story before the piece and then were hammered with a spin version once it aired.

Legal,
makes sense!

VWpickup,
Just my opinion but I think it would be much easier to argue that the methanol recovery unit is as legal as any other condensing process (used in many different applications in industry) since its not set up in an application capable of even making moonshine I would not even give it a second thought.
However remember that just because its a hobby does not exclude you from electrical inspection. Wiring that is not up to code is easy to spot if your in the industry, an overzealous ESA inspector or even an electrician with nothing better to do watching could cause you allot of grief and money in fines. Electricity is lethal and many die every year from unsafe wiring, I cant say the same for moonshine...
This is just my opinion and like a$$holes every one has one so take it for what its worth!
Best regards,
Jon

Beware. Don't let your Ego get the best of you on wanting to be a part of this story for Global. I wouldnt be doing more than a Dr.Pepper shake for any camera. Pouring my finished product into the Diesel Home Generator which helps charge the batteries in the battery bank and power a few energy efficient light bulbs in the house.
Until you know you have every base covered with government regulations, taxes, safety and bylaws... Don't put your operation on TV.
Just my Free advice
If you put some BD into your tank of your vehicle be sure to word it as, "This stuff is great!" "If I mix it 50/50 with regular diesel I get double the mileage from the diesel I buy""Great fuel additive!"" not fuel"

quote:

Originally posted by fabricator:
#1. You are not making methanol only recovering it.
#2. Think long and hard about such media exposure, such things have gone VERY wrong for many good intentioned BDers in the past, as for myself I endeavor to keep my pie hole shut and fly below the radar, any government anywhere exists solely to make your life a living hell.

Best advice I have read in a long time.

Seems to me that showing off a system to a TV crew is just plain dumb. The less said about what we do the better.

Thanks very much for all the replies everyone. I think I understand everyones concerns and you have given me some good advice that I'll definantly keep in mind.

LOL, this kinda reminds me of politics as I can see we're not going to all come to agree on every aspect of what's best to show the cameras/tv. I do intend to show what I can about my setup here, but I think it's in everyones' best interest if people see only the positive things about biodiesel, yet at the same time stay legal.

I will see if I can get a friend (electrician) to come and help me do an inspection to make sure everything looks good on that end, I've already had the local fire marshal come for an inspection and I'll be sure to have the fire extinguishers in place, and I should have no trouble showing all the important points without showing more than neccesary.

I'm hoping to spread the story out between my biodiesel operation and a friend who runs SVO. I'd like to have him/his car here aswell and try to clear up some mis-conceptions about biodiesel vs. SVO as fuel.

Thanks again everyone, I really do appreciate your opinions and points of view.

Just wait till your insurance person sees you on TV making FUEL and recovering methonal out in your shop. The next bill you get, grab your azz with both hands & hang on tight.

VWpickup,
My advice; Don't do anything to advertize what you're doing. There is always someone out there either a government official, insurance agent or private citizen just waiting to burn you. You can't even begin to imagine how somebody will misconstrue you message.
Take care,
Rick G.