What do y'all think of using this column on a modified beer keg to recover methanol from glycerine? If I added a water heater element to a keg and controled the temp with said element would this reflux column work?

Please give any advice as I'm new to methanol recovery. Thanks!

For the modified beer keg I wonder would this work for glycerine? Are two elements overkill? Using the reflux column from the link above could I wire a PID to a digital thermometer to control head temp?

Any thoughts? Please help!

Sure, a PID and an SSR or contactor with a Thermocouple at the top of the column would work fine. I'd put a thermometer in the barrel as well just to keep an eye on things. It might take some trial and error to match heat input with condensor capacity.

Tony

I am using a beer keg and only use 1 element.So far I have not needed a temp controller at all.It seems the head temp stays just under 160F until the methanol just about stops running out of the condenser. When i notice the temp go to 180. I unplug it. I have let it go longer but the purity starts to drop way down.I am getting 98 to 100% methanol.

still_001.jpg (104 Kb, 170 downloads) still

Thanks guys! I'll post my results after I get it set up and running.

Tiger, I would still (no pun intended) love to come see your setup sometime...

Cheers.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger744:
I am using a beer keg and only use 1 element.So far I have not needed a temp controller at all.It seems the head temp stays just under 160F until the methanol just about stops running out of the condenser. When i notice the temp go to 180. I unplug it. I have let it go longer but the purity starts to drop way down.I am getting 98 to 100% methanol.

Tiger, is that keg alum or SST? Could you describe what you did to it to convert it to a still?

The still with a reflux column has always seemed an elegent solution to me. Lately I have come to the conculsion that it is an overly complicated solution to the methanol problem.

The problem is essentially that we all want to recover our methanol:
-so that we get to use it to make more fuel (save money)
-so that we can make the glycerin safe for other uses

The simpler solution seems to be:
-heat some dry WVO up to 140F or so
-mix it 50/50 with your glycerin
-agitate/mix for an hour or so
-allow the glycerin/crude biodiesel to separate

This pulls essentially all of the methanol out of the glycerin and partially converts your next batch of biodiesel.

It solves the problem without complicated equipment.

-Jim

Jim, after you get the crude bd, what next. Do you titrate and process as normal?

Jim,

quote:

This pulls essentially all of the methanol out of the glycerin and partially converts your next batch of biodiesel.

Have you done this? How much of the methanol does it pull out and how do you know?

Reason I ask? As I understand it, methanol has much more affinity for glycerine than it does for oil. Seems like the methanol would at least partly want to stay with the glycerine layer. I could be wrong about that...

I have done it, but I still need to do a controlled boil off of the glycerin to see how much methanol is left in it. I do know that I start with liquid glycerin at 70 deg F and end up with solid/jello glycerin at 70 deg F.

Like I said, I need to take some of the jello glycerin, weigh it, heat to 200F, and then weigh it again.

-Jim

Also, I still need to finish my still to get the excess methanol out of my biodiesel.

-Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Raften:
Jim, after you get the crude bd, what next. Do you titrate and process as normal?

I have only done this in 1 liter batches. I plan to use 3.5g/L plus my original titration number and process with 20% methanol. Maybe I'll cut it down as time goes on, but the excess methanol and NaOH is just going to get used on my next batch.

It's kind of like doing a base/base reaction, just with the smaller amount of methanol and NaOH on the first run.

-Jim

Well I can see how it might work but still just a theory. Give it a try with a big batch and let us know.

Sorry about the hijack. The stuff above should have been over here:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/73960555...401052622#8401052622

Anyway, $150 for a 3 foot stainless refulx column & a condenser seems like a pretty good deal.

I sure wish I had not tossed that pony keg I was using for a foot stool. It was 10 years ago and we were moving, but still...

-Jim

while i haven't read the posts in detail there are few observations. so please forgive glaring mistakes

1. the pot temp doesn't matter, period get over it!!! I've run my to 215F. yes above boiling of water. purity didn't change. 215 only because I haven't tried to run it higher. I don't think the pump will take the temps.

2. the temp at the top of the reflux column does...let this rise above about 152 and the purity will drop off. the drop of recovery will increase..so its a trade off.

3. acid/base processing does work. my method with 2 acid stage up to 40%FFA(80KOH homebrew).

4. how does one separate the oil/gly mix should one choose this route and how long does it take to separate? hours...days..weeks...well if you get into days acid/base is faster.

just my 2 cents

-dkenny

It starts settling immediately. I let it sit overnight and was rewarded with solid glycerin in the bottom of my flask.

A possible solution would be to recirculate for a hour then pump over into an open topped barrel. The glycerin with separate and settle to the bottom. Once it cools it will solidify making it very easy to pump the crude biodiesel back into the processor to start the regular process. If you time it right you could run several at the same time by using several barrels. Yes, it adds another step. So does running a still.

-Jim

You can build your own still for less than $150.

Just wanted to update w/ my results. I had a half keg fitted with a 1500kw element and used the Essential Extractor II reflux column with copper pot scrubers as the packing material. I insulated the keg and the column with foil backed duct insulation. It's very shiny!

It takes 2 hours to get the methanol to start boiling but then it comes fast and furious for 6-8 hours. I've recovered 2 batches, combined them and tested the purity by 2 methods. First is by density using a 1000 ml calibrated flask and a digital scale, and the second is with an alcoholmeter. I use a digital thermometer to check and recheck the temperature. Methanol was tested at 68F which is the temperature that both the flask and alcoholmeter are calibrated.

I did both methods twice to check my results and it looks like I'm recovering methanol at 97-98% purity. I'm very happy!

I'm getting around 3 gallons methanol from 15 gallons glycerine produced using a BioPro 190.

I just processed a batch using 5 gallons recovered methanol and 5 new and it passed the 3/27 test with clarity and no drop out. So I'd recommend the Brewhaus reflux column I bought to anyone!