A still to distill distilled methanol? - Topic Powered by eve community

welder

member

Posted

Hi guys.

Aside from the link Rick posted on page 1, does anyone have any favourite websites or books on the subject of distillation?

Something for beginners maybe? (perhaps a title like: "Distillation without dismemberment: an idiots guide to still safety")

I'd like to see what different technical approaches are applicable to distillation. For example, Backyard Sheik mentioned that his still won't function without pressure, but I would have thouight that pressure would have reliquified the meth in the same way that propane is liquid inside a pressurized tank.

Are all your peoples stills pressurised, or can a guy just boil meth vapour out of glyc and cool the vapours in a chilled vertical tube with added surface area to encourage meth condensation?

I don't like the idea of pressurizing flammable poisonous stuff outside of a properly engineered and safety certified pressure vessel.

Can't I just increase the surface area of the tower so much that when actively chilled, it can reliquify a high volume of meth vapour before the vapour can expand out of the atmospheric pressure condensor tower?

I imagine that a person could build a system so carefully ballanced and controlled that the condensor could reliquify the meth so efficiently that even in a totally sealed still there would never be any significant pressure. Something like every time the pessure guage shows 10 psi, the heat is cut off from the pot until the condensor can bring the pressure down to 2 psi and then the heat comes back on again.

Registered: 26 September 2005

Ignored post by welder posted

tgomes

member
2008 Sponsor

Posted

Welder,

Check out Graham Lamings system. Excess vapors are pulled back through the processor via venturi. It operates at atmospheric pressure and does not vent outside the system.

Tony

1983 Mercedes 300D
GL processor
You're not finished when you lose,
You're finished when you quit.

Location: Tampa, Fl | Registered: 27 April 2007

Ignored post by tgomes posted

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by welder:
Hi guys.

Aside from the link Rick posted on page 1, does anyone have any favourite websites or books on the subject of distillation?

Something for beginners maybe? (perhaps a title like: "Distillation without dismemberment: an idiots guide to still safety")

I'd like to see what different technical approaches are applicable to distillation. For example, Backyard Sheik mentioned that his still won't function without pressure, but I would have thouight that pressure would have reliquified the meth in the same way that propane is liquid inside a pressurized tank.

Are all your peoples stills pressurised, or can a guy just boil meth vapour out of glyc and cool the vapours in a chilled vertical tube with added surface area to encourage meth condensation?

I don't like the idea of pressurizing flammable poisonous stuff outside of a properly engineered and safety certified pressure vessel.

Can't I just increase the surface area of the tower so much that when actively chilled, it can reliquify a high volume of meth vapour before the vapour can expand out of the atmospheric pressure condensor tower?

I imagine that a person could build a system so carefully ballanced and controlled that the condensor could reliquify the meth so efficiently that even in a totally sealed still there would never be any significant pressure. Something like every time the pessure guage shows 10 psi, the heat is cut off from the pot until the condensor can bring the pressure down to 2 psi and then the heat comes back on again.

Pressure? There is never anywhere near 10 psi in my still, the pressure never even reads on my guages, possibly .5 or .75 psi, not sure where you got the idea there is any significant pressure in the pot but the condenser is an open hole in the pot, you cant build much pressure with an open hole.

Location: West Michigan | Registered: 26 April 2006

Ignored post by fabricator posted

welder

member

Posted

Hi T Gomes.

Thanks for the tip. You are the second bio brewer that recommended that I evaluate Graham Lamings work for possible guidance. He comes very highly recommended.

Hi Fabricator.

If you read the post by Backyard Sheik at the top of this page, you'll see where I got the impression that at least some level of pressure might be involved in distillation.

Although he never states any pressure measure, the Sheik did mention the word "pressure" a couple times. I had no stated numbers, only the word "pressure", so I wasn't sure how to take that. Thanks for clarifying the issue.

Registered: 26 September 2005

Ignored post by welder posted

Member

Posted

Anytime.

Location: West Michigan | Registered: 26 April 2006

Ignored post by fabricator posted

BAckyard Sheik

Member

Posted

Welder and fabricator,
When I said "pressure" I was referring to no more pressure than tea kettle generates, maybe 3-4 lbs. tops. All you want is enough positive internal pressure to force the methanol "steam" through the condensing coil and into a suitable container like a clean cubie with the lid removed. If you have any leaks in the tank or reflux column the methanol "steam" will not exit the tank via the reflux column and condensing coil. Its pretty basic stuff.

To seal any leaks that develop I use an old moonshiner's trick: wheat paste. After disconnecting the heat and allowing the still to cool a bit, I slather on a sticky paste of bread flour and water on and around the offending leak(s). The warmth from the tank will cause the water on the outside surface of the wheat paste to evaporate and harden, forming a hard shell to keep the methanol from escaping. BTW: I found out that silicone RTV caulking will not withstand the heat, however the wheat paste "caulking" will vry nicely.

The still pictured (7 gal. drum) will generate about one to one and half gallons of crystal clear methanol in about an hour once it gets "rolling". I use a 1500 watt immersible, electric skillet heating element suspended inside the tank with a section of all-thread and four jam nuts. An Omega Engineering magnetic thermometer monitors the tank temperature.

Does that help clarify term "pressure" inside the still?

Registered: 28 June 2007

Ignored post by BAckyard Sheik posted

pom

Member

Posted

Have you tried making meth from a mash now you have the still ?

Be very curios as to how cheap it would be to make (its expensive to buy methanol in the UK at least).

cheers

Pom

Registered: 10 May 2007

Ignored post by pom posted

GrahamLaming

Member

Posted

Hi Pom

Regret you can't make methanol from fermetation brewing, it is synthesised from natural gas normally.

You're probably thinking of ethanol, good old drinking alcohol! (Methanol is poisonous)

It is possible to use ethanol for making biodiesel but is more of a challenge, as it is sensitive to water, so your purity needs to be particularly high, and even reflux distilling may not give you enough purity. You may need to use a molecular sieve to get the ethanol sufficiently dry for successful reaction.

There's a separate section of the forum deidicated to ethanol biodiesel.
See here.

Plus, the Tax man may take offence to you brewing and distilling ethanol.

Rover 75 + Skoda Fabia on B100
Bicycle on G100
http://www.graham-laming.com

Location: UK | Registered: 04 December 2005

Ignored post by GrahamLaming posted

pom

Member

Posted

darn it!

thanks graham.

Pom

Registered: 10 May 2007

Ignored post by pom posted

harry747

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by GrahamLaming:
... and even reflux distilling may not give you enough purity.

that's because ethanol and water form an azeotrope which is about 96% or so. you can't get beyond that by distillation alone, not even in the most sophisticated reflux still.

Location: West London, UK | Registered: 29 November 2005

Ignored post by harry747 posted

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by harry747:
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamLaming:
... and even reflux distilling may not give you enough purity.

that's because ethanol and water form an azeotrope which is about 96% or so. you can't get beyond that by distillation alone, not even in the most sophisticated reflux still.

Ok, so that is why I cannot get past 96-97 percent, is there a way to do something about breaking the water methanol azetrope? BTW, what the hell is an azetrope?

Location: West Michigan | Registered: 26 April 2006

Ignored post by fabricator posted

Fuzznag

Member

Posted

quote:
Originally posted by fabricator:
quote:
Originally posted by harry747:
quote:
Originally posted by GrahamLaming:
... and even reflux distilling may not give you enough purity.

that's because ethanol and water form an azeotrope which is about 96% or so. you can't get beyond that by distillation alone, not even in the most sophisticated reflux still.

Ok, so that is why I cannot get past 96-97 percent, is there a way to do something about breaking the water methanol azetrope? BTW, what the hell is an azetrope?

Fabricator
The recent couple of posts are about Ethanol/ Water azeotropes not Methanol/Water. You should be able to get very close to pure methanol (>99.95%) with a correctly designed and operated reflux still.

From what you hae described of your set up you should be able to do better than 96/97%.

By the way an azeotrope is a mixture of liquids where the vapor has the same composition as the liquid. The components of an azeotropic mixture can't be separated by "simple" distillation. such as Ethanol and Water.

Location: East Yorkshire | Registered: 14 January 2006

Ignored post by Fuzznag posted

Member

Posted

Doh! I guess I wasnt paying attention again.

Location: West Michigan | Registered: 26 April 2006

Ignored post by fabricator posted