KBR held the previous ICE contract from 2000 through 2005. The contract, which is effective immediately, provides for establishing temporary detention and processing capabilities to expand existing ICE Detention and Removal Operations Program facilities in the event of an emergency influx of immigrants into the U.S., or to support the rapid development of new programs, KBR said.

Haliburton to build more detention camps - in the U.S

Oh yes, the War of Terror, now who did we decide were the terrorists?

even if there were draft, and hold your breath on that one, it still doesn't mean that a person is OBLIGATED to go to war.
Here's the skinny on it; when a person is "called up" that person IS obligated to show up. As all military service in the US is voluntary they have devised a method of "ceremony" to signal acquiecense to the call up, and that "ceremony" is stepping forward when your name is called. If you do not step forward but simply state your presence, AND RWEFUSE TO STEP FORWARD, they cannot force you into military service. They will lauht at you, call you names,but you will not be going out to fight any more criminal wars.
So, even in the event of a draft, one does not HAVE to go,even if one does have to show up for roll call. DO NOT STEP FORWARD WHEN YOU R NAME IS CALLED. Tell them you DO NOT volunteer to joing the military and stay put. When the point is clear turn and walk away, there isn't a blessed thing they can do about it. You are not under arrest, unless they get funny in the head and attempt to hit you with desertion, but that is difficult if you've not enlisted... and you DO NOT ever state that you are enlisting.The only statement you need to make is that you DO NOT wish to volunteer for military service.
Now, if that simple truth had been told to those poor saps who got screwed into volunteering their lives and health and the health of their fqamilies (if they make it back) then the outcome would have been different. Can't invade with an army. But as long as there are peeple willing to believe the nonsense, and in this case outright lies being told them, then this sort of crap qwill keep right on going.
When Isarel attacks the Iranian reactor who do you think will take the brunt of the retaliation? Take out a map of the middle east and have a look-see. Where is Iran? Just on the OTHER side of Iraq, where all the US soldiers are. So, when Israel again gets the trouble started they have all those saps right where they want them as cannon fodder for yet another zionist war. Too bad they can't fight their own battles eh? Damn sad it is always others who have to die and get maimed so that the Zionist dream can come true. I would be intrested in seeing where in the US constitution it states that the President has the authority to mercenary out US troops for a foreign government, and one that doesn't even pay it's own way at that, as he has flatly stated that the US will support Israel in any attack on Iran.You remember any soldier signing up to fight zionist wars? What a "noble cause" to die for eh? Should make one "proud" to be cannon fodder, shouldn't it?
Henry Kissinger, that notable neocon warmonger, said what enbodies the attitude of these warhawks,
"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy."
~ Henry Kissinger ~ January-February 2003 edition of Eagle Newsletter
Link 1
Historical Background of Quote
Written for Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu (sp?)A Clean Break outlying (out lying?) the need for another pearl habor incident to get things on schedule.
One thing nmy Bible teacher taught us and I found to be so true," You're friends rarely need an expanation and your enemies won't believe you anyway, so don't bother trying to convince them against their will". ANd that concludes my contribution/rants/opinions/.02 worth.

Branw

In a post on the previous page I demolished your assertion that the steel falling from the towers would generate enough heat to melt it. Even if dropped 79 km it would not melt. You had relied on this to explain the existence of molten metal in the basements. What are you relying on now?

Legal Eagle, just as you said -

George Bush yesterday committed the US to the defence of Israel against threats from Iran, saying he would not allow the world to be "blackmailed" by an Iranian nuclear weapon.

Bush Sucks up to Zionists

Hello Legal Egale

But as branw has so skillfully pointed out, these people joined the army on their own free will, they deserve to die.

Hey Tilly;
Debate club with you musta been .... interesting, ha!
Actually it is the duty of every soldier to refuse any orders that are illegal, and this whole damn war is illegal so that makes ALL orders illegal as well.That they chose not to refuse to obey then does indeed make it a free will gesture, and should war crimes tribunals ever be set up they can tell it to the panel of judges, but just whom would THEY be?
It is going to be interesting to see what happens when all those "blooded" soldiers get back home (already had one kidnap and rape a WalMart employee a few months back), loaded with radiation poisoning, and have to deal with the stress of every day life, since Bush et co have cut back their benefits, and having to face the disdain of the planet that they have been shielded from by their handlers. Nothing like poisoned, frustrated and angry people who have been trained to kill and ask questions never eh?
They have no moral high ground or even any legal high ground to stand on. This is an outright war of agression and they are the ones doing the agressing. No different than all those dictatorships that the US enjoyed badmouthing all those years; they have become what they most feared.
And speaking of dictatorships: If this were a dictatorship...

Legal, as stated before, the cease fire agreement ALONE makes the war legal. There doesn't have to be any other reasons. You could discredit any reason ever given for the war and breaking the cease fire agreement still makes it legal. Repeating "illegal" over and over doesn't make it true.


Neutral, your recent post shows me that either you know nothing about the physics involved, or more likely you are trying to weasel out by trying to pretend that the only force acting on the metal was an isolated freefall to the ground. Try this little experiment..... bend a paper clip and see if it gets warm. Do recall pictures of twisted metal? Most of the energy expended in the collapse ended up as heat. Conservation of energy. You have demolished nothing.



Tilly, why do you think all of the US troops deserve to die?

Hello branw

I bent a paperclip through 90deg and it did not get noticably hotter.

Do you really think that bending a steel beam through 90 degrees will make it so hot that it will turn to molten steel?
Is this part of "Creation Science"?
I bet most of the energy went into shaking the ground.

Do you mean you now do not believe the Army and Marine people who are dieing in Iraq have nothing to complain about because noone forced them to enlist.
Are you trying to say they are not dieing for a noble cause?

Are you a Pinko Commie bastard or something?

Very good tilly, I didn't want to make the experiment too difficult for you guys.

Step 2

Now drop 500,000 tons of steel, concrete, glass, and other misc. office building contents on top of your paper clip from an average height of 216 meters. Now tell me if it got noticably hotter. Feel foolish yet? Tell you what, I'll save you some time and money. Got a hammer? place your paper clip on an anvil and beat the hell out of it with your hammer. Is it still room temperature?


I am not "trying" to say anything. I simply say it.


Why do you think the US troops deserve to die?

quote:

Originally posted by branw:
Why do you think the US troops deserve to die?

Err Lamew.... Tilly was really asking you this but it seems the flow of dialogue was too subtle for you. I will spell it out for you Lamew

When he said "Lamew has pointed out" he was saying that you seemed to think they should die and maybe you should say something more to explain yourself as to why if you were uncomfortable with that.

Tilly don't be so subtle with Lamew In one of his personalities he just doesn't understand... in another he will only twist it in the now familar effort to get the spotlight off himself and his erratic statements.

Oh and Lamew?; as a scientist you'd make a good janitor....

Let me spell it out for YOU moron......


I never said they deserve to die, I never implied it in any shape, form, or fashion. Tilly made that statement pretending that I did. Since I didn't, perhaps he's projecting. My question was to find out if he is projecting, if he misunderstood me, or if he is just trying to be an ass. I already know the answer though.



What is your prejudice against janitors?



P.S. If you use quotation marks, it must be an exact quote. Otherwise, it is a lie.

Hello branw, you seem to quickly forget what you say on this forum.
Just to refresh you this is what we are talking about.

Terry said:'
"News Flash!!!!
War sucks. People die. I'm sure it was hazardous to the health of the Japanese kamikaze. Don't worry, I'm sure we will eventually find a way to kill people with no risk to ourselves or civilians. Sounds harsh but it is reality. Some people just need to be killed."

To which Legal Eagle expanded on by saying:
"Ah yes, the archair, let-someone-else's-kid-go-off-and-die crowd.Rah rah, sis boom ba, as long as they themselves never have to pony up to the plate.

Then an "Armchair Expert" disagreed with their thoughts about all the soldiers needlessly dieing in Iraq by posting this justification for their deaths:
"You guys might have a point if their were a draft presently in effect. The fact is they are all volunteers here. They agreed to go to war when they signed up. No one is sending someone elses kid. That kid is a legal adult and has decided for himself/herself"

Interestingly, I have two grown "Children" presently on active service in the Australian Army. They will always be my "Kids"

Keep up tilly, the last statement was about sending other peoples kids. Not about troops that deserve to die. The point, which has been lost on you, is that it doesn't matter what your children are or will always be to you. They are adults and they volunteered to risk their lives for the military. There was never any inference to US troops deserving to die. Either you are very very stupid or you are grasping desperately to have a valid argument. I'm not quite sure which one it is yet.



P.S. I made the first post, not Terry. Keep up. See


So, who needs to be refreshed now?

Hello branw
Now I am a bit confused.
So you are saying that as an "Armchair Expert" you completely agree with Terry's and Legal Eagle's view about the senslessness of these soldiers being sent to Iraq to die, although you do not think they are Kids and they were not sent there anyway, they all went because they wanted to go to Iraq and so the US government sent some military equipment for them to use?

Do you feel this has anything to do with bending a paperclip through 90deg?

I am having a refreshing Dr Pepper "The quicker pepper-upper"

Actually Dualfuel made the first post. See.

You are confused... Not surprising.


We have something in common... Very surprising. I also happen to be nursing a Dr Pepper.

Do you have ADD?

About your most recent questions...

No.

No.



Did you complete step two of the paper clip experiment?

Heh heh we got you spitting chips now Lamew

As an Ausie I may be a moron or lobotomised irishman but I can still provoke you into the spitting fits...

And another newsflash for you babe... if they go...many of them die. I think you'll find they serve to protect the country and its people...like juat about all soldiers do. Do you think then they should be sent around the world to fight for texacos right to gainsay Iraq oil or to change a government to protect and foster another country's dream...(Israel? Or on a lie about the necessity for war on terror slotted back to 9/11?


I've got nothing against janitors.. Long ago I used to be one. I am also a scientist by qualification and I know the difference....

I don't speak ausineese. What is this "spitting chips"?

Which specific science do you possess expert knowledge in?

Why would I make a good janitor?

Branw, let's examine your statement slowly.

quote:

Neutral, your recent post shows me that either you know nothing about the physics involved, or more likely you are trying to weasel out by trying to pretend that the only force acting on the metal was an isolated freefall to the ground. Try this little experiment..... bend a paper clip and see if it gets warm. Do recall pictures of twisted metal? Most of the energy expended in the collapse ended up as heat. Conservation of energy. You have demolished nothing.

Of course I know what happens when I bend a paper clip. I utilize some of the food energy I stored previously, turning it into muscular energy, and transfer that to the paper clip. The paper clip resists bending so the energy input is absorbed and it gets hot.

If we use this as an analogy to the effect of dropping steel beams it goes like this: Workers use the energy stored in fuel using motors in cranes to lift the beams. Imagine these are remarkably high cranes and can lift the beams 79 km high. The energy of the fuel converts to potential energy in the steel as it is lifted. When the steel reaches a height of 79 km the potential energy is equal to the amount of energy needed to heat and melt the steel.

If the steel is then dropped the potential energy is consumed and converted to kinetic energy as the steel picks up speed. As you rightly point out the laws of conservation of energy apply so, assuming this is done in a vacuum so we can ignore air friction, all the potential energy will be converted to kinetic energy and will be available at impact. The steel will certainly be heated. It won't melt however as only some will be coverted into heat in the steel, an approximately equal amount of heat will go into the surrounding material that gets hit, some will shake the earth and some will produce sound.

The height of the towers was 415m. So steel, even that which fell from the very top, would have contained only about 0.5% of the energy needed to melt it, even if all the heat had been produced in it and not given to the surroundings.

Your example of hitting a paper clip with a hammer is very instructive and clearly shows the error of your line of reasoning. No matter how strong the hammer wielder it is impossible for him to melt the paper clip even though it is so tiny.

Have you ever watched a blacksmith working on a piece of steel? He has to keep putting it back into the fire and blowing air on the coals to get it hot enough to bend. He cannot keep it hot by hitting it, let alone get it hot from cold.