I wold like to comment on the notion that handguns are to blame for a higher crime rate . Here in the Great State of Texas we have the right to bear arms through the concealed handgun license program . Anyone whom is not a known criminal can obtain a license to carry with them in public a concealed handgun . Incidentally we also have a incredibly low crime rate when compared to demographic areas similar to ours like NYC or LA . Is it possible that knowing that anyone you encounter on the street may or may not have in thier possession a weapon to defend themselves deters criminals? Also I have on several occasions used my handgun to take care of snakes and wild animals on my property that could have caused undue harm to my wife or children . Are we to undrstand that you would rather hide in the house from the unknown dangers of nature than kill something ? Do you have any idea just how much killing was needed to make this land inhabitable ? If not for the invention of firearms we would be overrun with predators who we would be defensless against . Not to mention that the reason this country was founded was to escape the monarchy that was limiting our forefathers in just the same way as you propose . I do agree that guns in the hands of the wrong people do far too much evil , but also believe that if you outlaw guns , only the outlaws will have guns . They already are breaking the laws with thier activities , do you think they will care about breaking one more law?

quote:

I have no problem licensing people for the responsible use of firearms just like we license people to fly airplanes, drive 18 wheelers, install electrical wiring, or any number of potentially hazardous activities. Blaming firearms for gun homicide is like blaming spoons for obesity

My . things have been busy over the last 24 hours.
But, John Galt, you are right about one thing. This arms carrying thing is very much like the religeous discussion. Each of us will stick to their own view and niether will be able to understand why the other does so. So I also propose that we drop this.
I do firmly believe that guns are a major cause of serious crime based on the ever increasing number of shootings we are getting over here. As you say, making the carrying of firearms illegal will make it so that only criminals have guns. But in this case you will then have a clear picture of the situation. Anyone found with a hand gun is by definition a criminal and can be either jailed or , is he/she is threatening anyone, the police can blow him/her away. No questions needed.
I do realise that guns are a cultural thing in America and Canada, and that it would seem very strange not to have one. But it is a part of the transatlantic we don't need over here.
Just to put the record straight, I also spent some time in the Army, seven years. I also can put a hole in a man-sized target at half a mile. I was in South Yemen during the late '60's and saw my fair share of the things that bullets and grenades do to people.
After Yemen I moved to Sharjah on the Persian gulf. I felt rather strange to be walking unarmed amongst people that looked identical to the ones in Aden, where we were always armed with sub-machine guns. But it was also a relief.
dodgeram wrote...
Is it possible that knowing that anyone you encounter on the street may or may not have in thier possession a weapon to defend themselves deters criminals?

This gets to the nub of the problem. Because it is also difficult to know if the person walking by you is going to going to pull out a gun and rob you. And by the time you find out it is too late. After all, what do you call a 5 foot pimply teenager with a 9 mm pistol in his hand ? Sir.
So if i am going to be attacked or robbed, let it be by someone without any weapons, or maybe even a knife. That way I at least stand a chance.

regards
dva

KO, Thanks for that. Long time away ?

Now to get back to the anti war thing.

Most of you will remember that some time back we Brits were conned by our own leader into following GWB into an illegal and stupid war.
Now the G8 summit is with us, and GWB has stated that he isn't interested in any Kyoto type agreements.
He also said that Tony Blair needent expect any favours just because we supported America over Iraq.
Today London was hit by four bombs. At the last count 39 people are dead, 45 in a serious condition and 700 injured. The main suspect if Al Kayida. So we get this for our help to GWB, yet he won't help out with the world-wide polution problems.

Thanks a lot George.
dva

By the way, I still can't see the logic in that quote at the top.

Anything requiring a license is illegal. Otherwise it wouldn't need a license. It's an unusual way to think of it. It also means anything requiring a license is not a right, and that is the central part of the argument made by many pro-gun folks.

Hi Guys.

Im new to this forum. However, I have been 'observing' and taking things in for a while now. For information Ive just heard on BBC Radio4, that the announcement on decisions made over the environment and climate change by the G8 will now be announced tomorrow. Having been put back a day due to cowardly terrorist activities in London.

It is widely expected that there will be a significant backtracking on targets set at Kyoto. It seems that the outcome is more likely to suit Bush and the US than the needs of the environment and the rest of the world. They are expected to announce that climate change is no longer a pressing issue and is now seen to be a long term problem.

Why can they not see that oil and gas is beginning to run out?
Can we really afford to depend so heavily on Middle East oil?

Surely we can help our ailing economies, our impoverished farmers, we can create a much more healthy and sustainable environment. Whats not to agree with? Wheres the disadvantages?

I cant understand how the other seven leaders in the G8 can meet at a table with the idea of reducing dependence on fossil fuels and acting to reverse our effects on the environment... And then suddenly change their opinions to that of one single 'leader' who has little understanding of anything but short term pocket filling. All the impetus started last weekend with Live8 seems to have fizzled out. Whats wrong with these people, cant they see whats going on?

TommyP

quote:

Originally posted by tommyp:
It is widely expected that there will be a significant backtracking on targets set at Kyoto. It seems that the outcome is more likely to suit Bush and the US than the needs of the environment and the rest of the world. They are expected to announce that climate change is no longer a pressing issue and is now seen to be a long term problem.

Why can they not see that oil and gas is beginning to run out?
Can we really afford to depend so heavily on Middle East oil?

Surely we can help our ailing economies, our impoverished farmers, we can create a much more healthy and sustainable environment. Whats not to agree with? Wheres the disadvantages?

I cant understand how the other seven leaders in the G8 can meet at a table with the idea of reducing dependence on fossil fuels and acting to reverse our effects on the environment... And then suddenly change their opinions to that of one single 'leader' who has little understanding of anything but short term pocket filling. All the impetus started last weekend with Live8 seems to have fizzled out. Whats wrong with these people, cant they see whats going on?

TommyP

Think of the situation--as nasty as it may be--like this: as long as there are sucklings to drink the milk, the cows will be milked and the milkers will do anything and everything to keep the sucklings sucking.

Petroleum is worse than a crack habit. And the pusher will profit on every rock. The less there is, the more expensive it is. The profit margins do not change. Simple supply and demand.

And we move on to solid foods, grown tired of the sour milk of the teat. Others will either grow or eventually starve as the teat cannot provide milk forever. . .

I always thought that the issuing of a licence was an indication that the recipeint was proficient. also a record of the people who recieved it.
regards
dva

'and the wealthy shall inherit the Earth; failing that they will buy or steal it."

quote:

Think of the situation--as nasty as it may be--like this: as long as there are sucklings to drink the milk, the cows will be milked and the milkers will do anything and everything to keep the sucklings sucking.

Petroleum is worse than a crack habit. And the pusher will profit on every rock. The less there is, the more expensive it is. The profit margins do not change. Simple supply and demand.

And we move on to solid foods, grown tired of the sour milk of the teat. Others will either grow or eventually starve as the teat cannot provide milk forever. . .

HOON

Lets just hope the cow hasnt died before we are in a position to be able to provide a substitute for it. Or modified our behaviour enough so we dont have to depend so heavily on it. At least we can be safe in the knowledge that we as a group are at least doing something practical about it.

Tommyp

You only have a right to do these things if you have proved your suitability and competence. The papers are full of stories of incompetent plumbers and electricians causing fires etc.

As for using hazardous tools in public, sure you often need a permit.
But none of the above relate to handguns. It has been known for people to use the tools of their trade to kill others; but not very often.
You don't get many people driving an eighteen wheeler around the back streets of Miami looking for someone to rob. But you will find plenty of people with handguns that are there for just that purpose. Who knows, maybe some of them do actually have a license.
regards
dva

quote:

Originally posted by powersavers:
werent,like,8 of the 911 terrorists saudi arabian citizens ??? nothing bigger than a cigarette butt has been dropped on them. why must us soldiers go defend private businesses overseas. why were the south african natives able to run out all the whites who were trying to do business there,without bombs in response. if someone doesnt want you in their house, dont you usually leave?? why cant u.s.businessmen,and big oil get the picture. and what ever became of the us military, anyway. hell, iraq is what, half the size of mississippi? knowing they cant take that over makes me feel better. knowing the un and others would play hell overrunning this country if too many of us decide not to 'hail to the chief' any longer. wake up,america. use homebrewed alternate fuels,cut off the funding and terrorists will starve. buying oil just finances problems

I think the real problem are the oil companies including utility companies.Why do we have to pay high prices for dino? it all comes down to MONEY.Why are oil companies so powerfull,you gusst it Money.They aim to have a high profit from there sell.You said buy(i guess get it from the gas station) more BD.Sounds good at the first glance...,but here again you give more power to the oil sharks and the goverment likes it because that's more tax income.If you home make BD the cost per gallon is about 0.60 Dollar,why do we americans have to pay 2.50 + dollars at gas stations.Do you think that mittlemen think about fellow americans.I think that money in there pocket is more inportend.
Running a diesel engine on peanut oil is over a hundred years old...making hydrogen is about the same...why is it that it is "New tecnologie".Bd sold at gas station and also hydrogen sold at gas station...this ads up,controlled collection of taxes.If i make BD at home per law i have to pay taxes after so many gallons,the same thing if i make hydrogen from water(actually avery simple prosses).If i plant a garden and eat fruits and veggies should'nt there be a law that I have to pay taxes on it?....It would almost be impossible to controll that.We have a lot of free energy why is there so little advances or development?....Free energy can not be controlled for tax collection.
I think we americans beeing overtaxed on a single thing we have to depend of the most."The Automobile".Don't get me wrong I dont mind to pay taxes; the Staates depend on it but give me a break.If I have more money,I can spend more,the more I spend the more people have jobs and so on. Taxes for cars are Fuel tax,road tax,licence,registration FEE(just another word for tax)property tax ect..etc
This is just something to think about it.....
by the way you got a good point also...
Thank you
Johann....

"SEVERAL READERS WROTE to complain about a story in last week's issue, "Another Symptom of the Same Disease". As always, last week's issue is on the server* if you want to see the story, but essentially it was about an editorial in the British Medical Journal calling for a legal ban on pointy kitchen knives."

The discussion is about 1/3 the way down the page.

Ban knives

When the 9-11 hoax went down, I told my relatives that it would take a few months before information would start to leak out and we could start connecting-the-dots. It took a bit longer than I thought, but we eventually got enough to remove any doubt.

So with this recent London Bombing, I figured if it was a psy-op, then it would again take a while for information to start leaking. However, this time around there seems to be a lot more cluey people available to start the information coming in. Here is a recent bit -

Al Qeda website

Here's a link I used in another thread. Might as well keep everything together in one thread.

London Bombing

TS
Where was GB when the WT Towers were hit?
STD

SD, I'd say he was "out-of-the-loop" on what was going on. The pictures of him sitting in that school room reading the goat story appear to show complete bewilderment of the situation.

Now Dick Cheney on the other hand has a lot to account for. If you haven't read Ruppert's speech to the Commonwealth Club last year (I have previously posted a link, but here is one anyway) then I suggest you do. More of those elusive "dots" to connect.

Commonwealth Club speech link

quote:

Originally posted by johno:
Anything requiring a license is illegal. Otherwise it wouldn't need a license. It's an unusual way to think of it. It also means anything requiring a license is not a right, and that is the central part of the argument made by many pro-gun folks.

So we should outlaw electricity. Electricians have to be licensed.

quote:

property rights exist in some jurisdictions, and thus one might own or possess hazardous tools, however one might still need a license to use the hazardous tool in a public place.

unfortunately, no longer in the US.

People have been whittling away at property rights in teh US for years - this latest supreme court case just puts it out in the open.

Once they scrapped amendment 9 & 10 in the Civil War, the others were just more dominoes waiting to fall.

quote:

Originally posted by johann:
{Snip}
Bd sold at gas station and also hydrogen sold at gas station...this ads up,controlled collection of taxes.If i make BD at home per law i have to pay taxes after so many gallons,the same thing if i make hydrogen from water(actually avery simple prosses).If i plant a garden and eat fruits and veggies should'nt there be a law that I have to pay taxes on it?....It would almost be impossible to controll that.We have a lot of free energy why is there so little advances or development?....Free energy can not be controlled for tax collection.

Where do you propose to get teh energy to electrolise the water to get teh Hydrogen?

Where do you have free energy? I'd like to get some.

quote:

I think we americans beeing overtaxed on a single thing we have to depend of the most."The Automobile".Don't get me wrong I dont mind to pay taxes; the Staates depend on it but give me a break.If I have more money,I can spend more,the more I spend the more people have jobs and so on. Taxes for cars are Fuel tax,road tax,licence,registration FEE(just another word for tax)property tax ect..etc
This is just something to think about it.....
by the way you got a good point also...
Thank you
Johann....

I'm all for lowering taxes. Trouble is, there's a group of people that want to RAISE taxes - they are usually the same people that are in favor of governments taking over private property, and taking away firearms; In general, the same people that want to convert the world to a communist society by incrementalism. A little here, a little there, and the lobster doesn't know he's cooked intil the water's already boiling.

Thanks for the speech, Terry

"A consultancy agency with government and police connections was running an exercise for an unnamed company that revolved around the London Underground being bombed at the exact same times and locations as happened in real life on the morning of July 7th."

Underground exercises

Big move on the chess board.

Iran and Iraq cooperation

Guess that one came out of the blue. Seems rather odd.

Now, remember the quote from Napoleon about incompetence etc.
Well, here is a good example.

All London buses, and many of the provivcial ones too, are fitted with vcr recorders to help bring any trouble makers to justice and to help protect the driver.
So, one might think, the camera will have caught the person that was responsible for the bomb on the bus.

Ah, yes. you see, there was no bloody tape in the recorder.
Some lazy or incompetent worker didn't fit it. What the hell is the use of any security system if it is left in the hands of idiots.

regards
dva