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Would you attend an 'advanced topics' biodiesel class|
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edit as of Jan 23: See this link for more info on the Berkeley advanced and beginner classes in Febuary: http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/419605551/m/2741024381
Hello folks, I have been teaching beginners' biodiesel homebrewing classes and of course find that two days is never enough time to cover "everything" well enough, unless students have done a lot of research here first. In the past I've taught week-long Intensive classes and I"d like to do those again. Thanksgiving farm biodiesel class: Over Thanksgiving I co-taught a 'small farm biodiesel' (ie 200-300 gallon batches etc, not quite commercial-scale) class at Piedmont Biofuels (with Matt Rudolf officially, and with dKenny as an awesome visiting guest speaker). This was a lot of fun for all of us and I think it worked really well. Most of the students in that class were well-read on the matter but hadn't really made fuel (or not much fuel), which worked really well. I think they were mostly on 'the same page' in their learning process. Berkeley 'beginners-and-advanced-beginners' class today This weekend I tried something new- a "beginners-and-advanced-beginners" class, where I"m trying to teach a mixed group of very beginning (but smart) students, and very advanced ones. It's difficult to both teach complete beginner 'the basics' (ie what is titration and why can't I just stick a pH meter in the oil and what is bubblewashing' for example), and also keep it interesting for the more advanced students (three or four of them have been making fuel for a year but still have occasional problems or gaps in their knowledge, or aren't confident in what they know.. I'm not too happy with how the class has worked out today- mostly because we had SUCH advanced students that the questions from the advanced people jumped around a lot more topics than I like to fit into two days for the total newbies. I really like to keep the classes discussion-centered, and it didnt' work as well today as it has at other times, because the advanced students were way "too advanced" this time. This same supposedly 'mixed' format worked quite well in my Thanksgiving class, but I dont think I"ll keep doing it this way because it seems difficult if the group is too mixed in experience level. advanced topics only class I've wanted for years to do an advanced class- covering ONLY: quality control, two-stage acid-base processes, more advanced dewatering and methanol recovery topics, ethanol, advanced equipment topics such as solar heating, larger batches, 'balance of system' equipment tricks to make your processing neater or less janky/dangerous/messy/illegal, etc, and would like to be able to cover a lot more 'how to conduct scientific experiments' exercises- as well as covering advanced topics in testing- soap tests, soap neutralisation, magnesol, testing recovered methanol for purity and various methods of increasing it, ways to test for/deal with unknown strengths of methoxide or other occasional mistakes, glycerine acidulation and purification, glycerine burning for process heat, proper composting tricks, better handling of wash water. I think this is a two-day class in itself. But I"m not sure how much demand/interest there would be in this, and that's what I"m trying to gauge here in this thread. Cost: It would be my standard $120 weekend class, running from 10-4 or even 10-5 each day, and it would be in Berkeley in late winter, maybe mid- or late Febuary. If there's sufficient interest I"d also schedule one somewhere in late May or early June when I do my next round of travel around the Midwest/East Coast. head count- who's interested? So, kind of a head count- is there anyone who'd be interested in such a class, who's made SOME fuel or has a full processor already (you don't have to be a wiz cause you'd not need a class then, but not be just a lurker, by then)? suggested topics? Please list any other suggestions for stuff you'd like to see in an advanced class- I"m mostly interested in covering a. chemistry topics b. getting good scientific process into people's heads (ie think of how Tilly isolates variables when conducting experiments- not everyone does this and they should) c. safer disposal of glycerine and wash water, including equipment for this (ie tumbling composters, greywater system) I do NOT want to cover: a. regulatory b. activist topics (ie the 'what do you do to spearhead the movement in your city/how do you run a co-op' sorts of things- we have the Co-ops conference in July in Colorado for that) c. high-tech theoretical topics of any sort (ie high pressure, high temperature processing, laboratory testing) d. GL's one day process, due to my lack of experience with it e. full-size commercial production, that's covered at the Iowa State University courses f. oil pressing equipment or oilcrops info, I'm not a farmer. Four-day classes for beginners and advanced: -I could do a beginners' class during the week, say, Thur-Fri, and then those no-longer-beginners could go on to attend the advanced one on the weekend. I have taught a lot of these 4-day classes in the past and really perfer them. Total cost would be $240 for four days. I"d prefer to do this in Berkeley at the moment. Piedmont Biofuels-organized seminar on quality control -theres some vague talk (I hate it cause all I want to do is stay at home right now) of me coming to co-teach or co-organize a quality testing seminar at Piedmont Biofuels in early spring(I dont really want to do it because I dont want to travel any more for a while). If this Piedmont thing happens and they hire me to co-organize it, I may be able to schedule one of my regular classes the week before, to make it worth my time (this is just a possibility at the moment, we haven't really made official inquiries yet at the facilities that are available for classroom space). It might be possible for me to schedule the proposed "advanced class" on a Thur-Fri, before the Piedmont-organized quality seminar on the weekend. The Piedmont quality seminar (not my advanced class, but the seminar they're running) will involve the true laboratory tests, with a visit to a state or university fuels lab (ie "see a real live cetane engine" etc), as well as the "backyard" quality control protocol. I might be jumping the gun by announcing their seminar here- the grant might stipulate that it's to have only an in-state, local audience or something- but that's what I understand of it right now. a week-long class at Piedmont Biofuels??? I have taught a week-long class at Piedmont before, and have talked idly about doing it again. Im not completely sure it's possible with the current facilities, but I hope it happens at some point this next year. Possibly it could look like: two days of my regular beginner class two days of my proposed 'advanced topics class' MAYBE (I don't know if this is possible the same week) two days of the Piedmont-organized laboratory quality testing/quality control class, which might be redundant for those who attended the first four days already. most likely in Berkeley, though... So... thoughts? Who's interested in what? Would you travel to Berkeley to do this, since I"m most likely to actually schedule this in Berkeley rather than anywhere else (including Piedmont, where these future 'advanced' classes by me are all just theoretical talk at this point)? This message has been edited. Last edited by: girl mark, ************ Biodiesel Homebrewing and Equipment Classes: www.girlmark.com/tour Biodiesel Homebrew Guide: www.localb100.com/book.html Diary of a Mad Scientist blog http://girlmark.com/blog |
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Biofuel Oasis Distribution course - I have nothing to do with this, but...
what if I scheduled my advanced course immediately following this one? Anyone going to their distribution seminar want to attend an advanced topics homebrewing course afterward? BioFuel Oasis Biodiesel Intensive: How to Start Your Own Biodiesel Station Dates: February 18-23, 2007 Location: BioFuel Oasis, Berkeley, California Cost: $650 (includes tuition and breakfast & lunch) Number of Students: 10-12 Instructors: Jennifer Radtke & Melissa Hardy After much anticipation and numerous requests, the BioFuel Oasis is offering this innovative intensive course. We believe there should be more small grassroots biodiesel stations in California and around the country. This course will give you the tools to start a biodiesel filling station in your town or city. Walk away with a vision, finished business plan and everything you need to make this happen! The class will cover: * Fuel Procurement and Quality Testing * Hands-on Equipment Building and Plumbing * Taxes, Permits & Zoning * Developing Your Market * Additional Income Generators: Merchandise, Delivery, Classes, Mechanics, Cafe, etc. * Visioning & Funding Ideas * Accounting & Small Business 101 * Decision-making, Burnout, Getting Along We will use Jennifer's zine as a text book for the class and give you hands-on experience at the BioFuel Oasis. We encourage 2-3 people interested in starting a business from the same area to come to the class together. Class will be 8 hours each day (approximately 9am - 5pm) except for Wednesday, when students will have the day-off from class but will have homework to do. Email oasisintensive@gmail.com to apply for this course or if you have any questions. The application deadline is December 20. The BioFuel Oasis is a women and worker-owned cooperative in Berkeley, California that sells ASTM quality biodiesel at a public pump. We opened in December 2003 and currently have over 1600 customers. Jennifer Radtke is co-founder and co-owner of the BioFuel Oasis and a member of the Berkeley Biodiesel Collective. She has been teaching classes on homebrewing biodiesel and building the Appleseed processor for the last 3 years. Her zine on starting your own biodiesel station will be out in December. Melissa Hardy is a co-owner of the BioFuel Oasis and a member of the City of San Francisco's Biodiesel Access Task Force. Melissa has been teaching about Biodiesel and vegetable oil fuels since 2002 and teaching environmental education around California since 1997. She graduated in 1998 from UC Berkeley and has extensive experience with community organizing and small business bookkeeping. ************ Biodiesel Homebrewing and Equipment Classes: www.girlmark.com/tour Biodiesel Homebrew Guide: www.localb100.com/book.html Diary of a Mad Scientist blog http://girlmark.com/blog |
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Hi Mark,
I would be interested in an advanced class. I especially like "nifty balance of system tricks for safe processing" or however you put it. Would also enjoy seeing methanol recovery in action... I have family in the bay area so could possibly make the trek, though of course we would love to have you back here on the east coast. The barn is always available if you need a site! Anyway please keep me posted. Regards, Farmer |
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Mark,
I could use the "advance topics" class as you refered to. East Coast (NC,GA,FL etc.) area the best choice for me. If not I will try the other side of the world(Berkeley next to Hong Kong?) bio_bob2 |
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I would attend the 'advanced topics' class in May-
The BioFuel Oasis class price seems steep-- I would buy the zine when it comes out and decide from there- Ed Culp Hillsboro, OR |
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I would definitely attend. Also, any chance we could find someone with experience with the GL 1-day method to guest teach a segment: I would love to learn more about that from someone who knows.
Kumar Plocher Yokayo Biofuels Fueled for Thought blog .........../ \.............. fueling / R \ evolution since 2001 '''''''''''''/____\''''''''''''''''''' Sustainable Biodiesel... |
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advanced topics only class
....I've wanted for years to do an advanced class- covering ONLY: quality control, two-stage acid-base processes, more advanced dewatering and methanol recovery topics, ethanol, advanced equipment topics such as solar heating, larger batches, 'balance of system' equipment tricks to make your processing neater or less janky/dangerous/messy/illegal, etc, and would like to be able to cover a lot more 'how to conduct scientific experiments' exercises- as well as covering advanced topics in testing- soap tests, soap neutralisation, magnesol, testing recovered methanol for purity and various methods of increasing it, ways to test for/deal with unknown strengths of methoxide or other occasional mistakes, glycerine acidulation and purification, glycerine burning for process heat, proper composting tricks, better handling of wash water......... I think this is a two-day class in itself. But I"m not sure how much demand/interest there would be in this, and that's what I"m trying to gauge here in this thread. Sounds great, however, The above is way too much to try and cover in two days. The "students" attending are going to be advanced to the point that "just hitting" on that many topics is not going to be that much value. I would think to cut it back and have more time to cover the material well. I see two different groups at this level. True homebrew for personal use and the co-op people. There may not be enough in either one alone to justify a class. Of course I'm only a 100L once or twice a month producer, so what do I know. I do know what interest me. Connect the dots, draw me a picture on how to do the soap test in the kiss way that Tilly does it. I still cannot figure out how to do this test. (But I'm really dumb. It took me about three days to figure out the oil titration. Now that is so simple, a 30 sec procedure). Quality control, so that when a batch turns to crap you've have a better chance of figuring out what went wrong. How to recover those not so good batches. These may be the same issues as the 500L guys, but seems that the approach would be different at a larger scale. |
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Girl Mark,
I would be interested in attending an advanced class. I am a school bus contractor and I make biodiesel for the busses. I like to do 200 gallon batches. I started with a Fuelmeister, then I built an 80 gal. appleseed, now I am using a 275 gal. processor that I built out of an oil storage tank. I like to use the GL 1-day method. I want to learn more about drying the oil before processing, methanol recovery, quality control, cold weather problems, dealing with FFA's, etc. Due to the day job I am not free to travel anywhere till after summer. I live in central Pennsylvania. It would be super if you could do an East coast trip. Thanks, kipsinc 84 MB 300SD, 2 Chevy Pickups w/6.2L, and 18 yellow school busses. |
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I'm interested in the advanced seminar. Berkeley's a bit outta the way for me here in Montana. Any thought of a Denver seminar? That'd be doable for me and there's a sizable bioD community there.
Happy holidays, Kimball |
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GM,
I would love to host an advanced class if you want to set one up in western NY? DD |
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Yes, I would be there for a Pittsboro class! This would be a great thing for the "slightly beyond beginners" crowd. Great idea.
boy mark '83 6.2 Suburban, 275k miles '86 6.2 K5 Blazer, 260k miles 1963 wife, one owner, average mileage for the age but in excellent shape, a keeper 1992 daughter, low mileage, pretty, limited edition, but requires some money to maintain 1995 son, sports model, very fast & peppy, time will tell on durability and maintenance costs |
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YES.
Thanks for asking. Preferred time of year: Late January or early February. Preferred location: If during Winter, South Central US. But late February in Berkeley would probably work for me. I would like to see more classes offered in the UPPER Midwest or Northern Great Plains; such as in Fargo, ND. |
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I would probably attend this, but I would be more interested in a class on GL's 1 day method. I haven't heard anything bad about his process and it seems like it might be 'the best thing since the appleseed'. Is it worth seeing if it's time for a paradigm shift for homebrewers? Not that it's a completely different method, but maybe it's worth spending time on to the point where this is what should be taught.
I haven't heard any debate about GL's process - just those that use it, love it. Not trying to hijack the thread, and maybe the month or two between now and when you want to have the class is not enough time to make it worthwhile. But for those of us far away, it may not be worth the travel expense to spend two days learning a method we might only use for a short time. If I attended a class today, I'd want it to cover: . 5% prewash, 80/20 - why isn't everyone using both? . dewatering oil - how much is too much water, and best techniques . safety issues, including methanol detection and ventilation . HANDS ON methanol recovery . pros/cons of magnesol . what to do with glycerin (ah, the age old question) Jason in Austin DieselGreen Fuels |
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I would gladly attend either class. However, the issue that has always been trouble is that I am a student in Mississippi, and you tend to schedule classes that are either too far away to attend on a school weekend, or you skip the holiday weeks altogether.
I WOULD be happy to sponsor, through the Mississippi Biofuels Group, a class at my farm in Seminary Mississippi, or at some other location closer to Jackson. |
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Hi Gill Mark!
What does a training workshop in Africa inpire you? The Biodiesel movement is quite new there and I my company is in advanced plans to organize a couple of training events down here. Please get back to me so that we can have further discussions on the issue. Cheers, Padiel
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Mark,
There are a few (3 or 4) of us here in the Bozeman area that would love to escape the montana winter for a few days to attend one of your Beg/Adv classes preferably in late Jan or anytime in March. JohnE |
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I would try to come down from Seattle for this class in Berkeley, and that weekend in late Feb would be good for me. I'm interested in stuff like testing recovered methanol for purity, glycerin acidulation and purif., glyc burning for proc heat, other ideas on what to do with glycerin, ideas on handling wash water, etc.
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Thank you all very much for the suggestions. By the way, I"m NOT teaching a class on GL's process, I"m not sure if people misunderstood above or if it was just wishful suggestions in the replies.
we have a weekend- Berkeley, end of Febuary It looks like the end-of-Feb weekend is OK with the Biofuel Oasis workshop organizers, so I'll try to find a location to do that class then. Ill post confirmation shortly as soon as I figure it out. other advanced class locations I'm working on So far, I"m looking at three workshop locations for this advanced class: -Berkeley in the end of Febuary (Feb 24-25), which looks definite -I'm trying to set one up in Michigan in the summer, haven't heard yet whether this is possible but I should be able to set up something through one of my several contacts there -Farmer Matt Steiman has offered to host one in Pennsylvania, and we're discussing whether that will be the Advanced class or not (it's likely to be a 4-day, including the basic class on Thur and Friday) That will also be in the summertime, maybe June. I think three sessions is about all I want to scheduleI dont want to schedule more than three of these advanced classes till I see what the actual interest level/attendance is like. class tour 2007 I'm mostly taking a break this winter, and then doing a long three-month teaching tour in the end of the spring and early summer, which will consist primarily of my regular classes (for beginners), with perhaps some equipment-only classes if desired. I'd be happy to do a "regular" beginners' class in Mississippi as requested above (thanks for offering!). itinerary for spring/summer classes 'tour' scheduling I think I'm starting the classes tour in April in the Southwest, and could drive across Texas and to the Southeast before heading north to the Northeast and then back to the West by way of the Upper Midwest. I'd probably return to Colorado by July 4th (we're having the Biodiesel Co-ops Conference in Colorado again, same July weekend as last year). . So, if anyone wants to host a 'regular' beginners' class during those dates, and you're along the way, let me know and we can talk about how to make this happen and what the space needs are. ************ Biodiesel Homebrewing and Equipment Classes: www.girlmark.com/tour Biodiesel Homebrew Guide: www.localb100.com/book.html Diary of a Mad Scientist blog http://girlmark.com/blog |
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OK, the advanced class is confirmed for Feb 24-25- I put up a registration link at www.girlmark.com/tour
Thanks! Mark ************ Biodiesel Homebrewing and Equipment Classes: www.girlmark.com/tour Biodiesel Homebrew Guide: www.localb100.com/book.html Diary of a Mad Scientist blog http://girlmark.com/blog |
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