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Hi Wesley,

quote:
Originally posted by WesleyB:

I had a titration number of sodium hydroxide of 6 grams per litre. That's about 8.5 grams potassium hydroxide.
Yes, it is about 8.5g KOH assuming the KOH was 100% purity.
However, you say your KOH was 85% purity so you would need to increase the amount of KOH to about 10g to adjust for the lack of purity of your KOH



quote:
Using a base amount of 5 grams per litre of potassium hydroxide
There is the same problem here.
Typically people use 5g NaOH as the base amount and 7g KOH (adjusted for purity) for the base amount.
By using only 5g KOH with a purity of 85% as your base amount that is like using about 3g NaOH as the base amount


quote:
I put 13.5 grams 85% potassium hydroxide into 210 millilitres of methanol. Used 1 litre fresh waste deep fryer oil.
Using conventional amounts of KOH with a purity of 85%, for the litre of oil you reacted the amounts of KOH would be-
Base amount of KOH- 8.2g
Titration amount of KOH- 10g
Total KOH- 18.2g
You said you used 13.5g KOH

Something is not right with your numbers.
It sounds to me like you might have performed this reaction using NaOH instead of KOH

In the future, if you are going to do the reaction with KOH, it is best to do the titration with KOH you will use in the reaction, not NaOH

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi All

I see my tread has been hi jacked?

Anyway back to my first batch of Biodiesel.

3.5 litres home used veg oil
Titrated using Turmeric 2.1
KOH 7gm per litre = 7 x 3.5 = 22.5
+ 2.1 = 24.6 * purity of KOH 99% =24.35gms KOH
700mils 99.98% Methanol

Heated to 50deg C and left for about 6 hours
then left to cool to room temp
drain 650mils of Glyserol
7 water washes
dried at bout 55deg C stirring about every 5 minuets for about 2 hours oil clear and bright
3/27 test gave a slight yellow tinge but no drop out
50/50 shake test gave cloudy oil and water but cleared after about 4 hours to water crystal clear oil clear and bright.

Any comments welcome please

Kind Regards

Mark
 
Location: Eastbourne | Registered: February 18, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hijacking: I seem to remember it happening previously.

Was your titration fluid made using KOH? If so, no need to correct for purity. I question your 99% figure for purity - are you sure?

One error I see:

KOH (base amount) 7gm/L x 3.5L = 24.5gm -> 24.7gm (99%, if correct)
KOH (titration) 2.1gm/L x 3.5L = 7.35gm
KOH total = 24.7gm + 7.35gm = 32.1gm for 3.5L

Shortages of alkali are likely to cause incomplete reactions which become hard to wash.

It was established long ago that due to the WVO retaining water, as the titration value rises significantly (beyond maybe 10 or so) the requirement increases to more than 1gm/litre of lye. IE the relationship stops being linear.

Was the vege oil new or used?

Paul
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Paul

Thank You for the reply yes the purity is 98.99% need very good purity for another mod on my car to save fuel. Titration Fluid made with KOH
 
Location: Eastbourne | Registered: February 18, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Paul,

quote:
Originally posted by Paulus:
It was established long ago that due to the WVO retaining water, as the titration value rises significantly (beyond maybe 10 or so) the requirement increases to more than 1gm/litre of lye. IE the relationship stops being linear.
Neutral actually recommended multiplying the titration number by 1.15 to compensate for the additional water starting from 1.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Mark,

quote:
Originally posted by Mark2256:
...yes the purity is 98.99% need very good purity for another mod on my car to save fuel.
Not that HHO nonsense I hope!







 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Thank you Tilly. I agree with you too about the HHO.
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Tilly and Paulus

Yes it is for an HHO system and it works very well Citroen state that I should get around 45 mpg urban and 62.8 mpg extra urban I am infact now getting around 56.8 mpg urban and 80.6 mpg extra urban and halved the immissions on my last MOT. I built the cell my self for about £30.00 Header tank and bubbler cost about £40.00 sundries £25.00 total £95.00 estimated fuel saving for the 6 months I have had if installed £60.00.

So with respect tell me thats non-sence.

Kind Regards

Mark
 
Location: Eastbourne | Registered: February 18, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Mark,

quote:
Originally posted by Mark2256:
So with respect tell me thats non-sence.
I knew it was the HHO scam.

The non-science of HHO...
It violates the first law of thermodynamics: the law of conservation of energy.

Automotive alternators do not make "free" electricity, Automotive alternator only makes the amount of electricity that is actually being used by your car.
Design requirements for automotive alternators results in an alternator that is not terribly efficient.

HHO cells use relatively large amounts of electric current and this "extra" current that is required to operate the HHO cell is produced by the Inefficient Alternator which requires extra fuel to be burned to supply the electricity that powers the HHO generator.
The extra fuel burned producing HHO by an inefficient automotive alternator far outweighs the power resulting from the HHO produced- (see that pesky first law of thermodynamics)

There is a reason that HHO generators are not fitted as original equipment on new cars and no reputable aftermarket automotive manufacturers sell them.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Tilly

The way I have set my system up the hho cell only draws 9 amps this is less than the rear screen heater. The currant draw is governed by the amount of catalyst used in the water, the more catalyst the higher the currant drawn.

Thier is a general misconseption that you need masses of hydrogen to improve the combusion of the fuel being used when infact you only need a small amount. Can I respectfully ask have you ever tried one of these hho systems.

I have herd that svo and biodiesel can cause a lot of damage to diesel engines, yet I am willing to try using it without knocking it until I have tried it for myself and we are all entittled to our opinions. With respect I am using and its working for me.

Kind Regards

Mark
 
Location: Eastbourne | Registered: February 18, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Come to think of it, I did read a terribly interesting article (which has disappeared) in this forum about efficiencies to be gained by better and quicker combustion in the cylinder and the effect on the flame front as it spread across the squish space, versus the movement of the piston, and torque.

It was exactly the same scenario as turning a bike pedal. As the pedal travels down there is a sweet spot where extra torque creates quite a difference in effective effort. More torque too soon after tdc - wasted effort. Likewise towards btd.

It made a lot of sense at the time.
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Mark,

quote:
Originally posted by Mark2256:
Hi Tilly
Can I respectfully ask have you ever tried one of these hho systems
No I have not. I have also not jumped off the roof of my house to verify that I can not fly like a bird.



quote:
I have herd that svo and biodiesel can cause a lot of damage to diesel engines, yet I am willing to try using it without knocking it
The big difference between using Biodiesel and HHO is that one does not violate the first law of thermodynamics.

I would be interested in seeing your before and after HHO mileage records for your car






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hi Paul,

quote:
Originally posted by Paulus:
Come to think of it, I did read a terribly interesting article (which has disappeared) in this forum about efficiencies to be gained by better and quicker combustion in the cylinder and the effect on the flame front as it spread across the squish space, versus the movement of the piston, and torque.

It was exactly the same scenario as turning a bike pedal. As the pedal travels down there is a sweet spot where extra torque creates quite a difference in effective effort. More torque too soon after tdc - wasted effort. Likewise towards btd.

It made a lot of sense at the time.
Really?
So you think that modern automotive engines are so poorly designed that just the slightest "sniff" of HHO which was very inefficiently produced on-board by the engine would result in an increase fuel mileage of over 40%???

I thought you had a better understanding of the science.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Depends what you call modern. My '89 Isuzu 2.8L diesel was "modern" in its day but - thankfully - doesn't have a single computer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Paulus,
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Paul,

quote:
Originally posted by Paulus:
Depends what you call modern. Mt '89 Isuzu 2.8L diesel was "modern" in its day but - thankfully - doesn't have a single computer.
Do you think that your "old" Isuzu engine is so poorly designed that by using HHO it would have an increase in mileage of over 40%?






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Lets just agree to disagree and get back to the point of this forum the production of Biodiesel.

Kind Regards

Mark
 
Location: Eastbourne | Registered: February 18, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I dont have a clue, but seeing as engine makers are playing around Big Time with variable valve timing and variable valve lift then it's clear that some people think there are efficiencies to be gained.

Mark's efficiency improvements I calculate to be between 25% and 28%. End of discussion. Good luck Mark Smile.
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Paul,

quote:
Originally posted by Paulus:
Mark's efficiency improvements I calculate to be between 25% and 28%.
You are correct, I see my miscalculation.
Just a mere 25% improvement in mileage.



quote:
I dont have a clue, but seeing as engine makers are playing around Big Time with variable valve timing and variable valve lift then it's clear that some people think there are efficiencies to be gained.
Haven't you ever thought it bit strange that while this very simple technology that is claimed to give such huge increases in fuel economy has been available for at least the last 20+ years, it has never been included as standard equipment or an optional extra by any new car manufactured anywhere in the world nor is it supplied by reputable after market auto parts manufacturer.

Apparently engine manufacturers are "playing around Big Time with variable valve timing and variable valve lift" in the hopes of picking up few percent improvement in fuel economy while completely overlooking this simple technology that has been available for at least the last two decades and can give them an increase of 25% or more in their fuel economy.
Doesn't that sound a bit unlikely?

I guarantee you that if something as simple as this could achieve even a "tiny" 5% improvement in fuel economy it would have been installed in every new car manufactured in the USA for the last 15 years.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tilly,






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hi Tilly

For the same reason car manufacturers don't make thier cars run on 100% biodiesel or LPG kick backs from the oil companies. Just think what it would do to the world economy if car manufacturer's started to produce cars that run on anything other than petrol or diesel. Yes thay are now producing cars that run on electricity but look at the draw backs to these limited range, hours to recharge thats if you can find a charging station, cost of replacement batteries.

Regards

Mark
 
Location: Eastbourne | Registered: February 18, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi Mark,

quote:
Originally posted by Mark2256:
For the same reason car manufacturers don't make thier cars run on 100% biodiesel or LPG...
Ah yes, the old conspiracy theory!

LPG has been a popular motor fuel for the last 30 years in Australia because of the tax break it enjoyed.
LPG is readily available throughout Australia as a motor fuel and has been quite popular (especially in taxis).
Here where I live in Paradise there are at least 4 petrol stations that sell LPG as a motor fuel.

In 1999 Ford Australia started selling their full size Falcon new with the option of LPG only fueling.
This continued to be an option available on the Falcon until it was discontinued in 2016.
Ford no longer builds cars in Australia.


Ford Falcon 2014 (LPG) - $12,100 | Cars, Vans







 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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