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B100 use in post-injection modern diesels, leading to high engine wear
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Hello All,
I just finished reading this article. It pretty much explains why,VW, MB and others with post injection diesel engines . Will allow no more than B20 or less to be used without voiding the warranty.
Read this article: http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/article.jsp?article_id=2290
 
Location: Western Mass. | Registered: March 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ahh...post injection..does that seem like a stupid, wastefully way to handle emissions to anybody else besides me?

And, of course, higher flash point BD doesn't take well to it, resulting in diluted engine oil and other things.
 
Location: Southern WI, USA | Registered: May 18, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ahh...post injection..does that seem like a stupid, wastefully way to handle emissions to anybody else besides me?


Yep. Nothing better to reduce emissions from burning fuel, than burning more fuel... Roll Eyes
It reminds me of the first attempts for reducing emissions on gas engines, before the catalytic converter..., if I remember correctly, probably in the late '70s, early '80s???


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

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Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't understand why they claim biodiesel either dilutes engine oil more, or why biodiesel dilution is worse than petroleum dilution. They offer the suggestion that biodiesel breaks down the additive cocktail without any explanation of the process, or any evidence of actual wear....


'05 CRD B100
'01 TDi B100

 
Location: Colorado | Registered: March 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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UFO if you did read the whole article it full explains why biodiesel and not dino diesel leads to the higher wear.
Too summarize the article ,as the Bio oxidizes it becomes more polar. Well as it turns out most of the ANTI-WEAR additives added to crankcase oil is polar bonded. Polar molecules are highly attracted to each other.
As the bio oxidizes it becomes more and more polar taking away the antiwear additives.
Crankcase oil with out the anti-wear additives does not make a happy engine! Not with all the close tolerances in modern day motors.
Joe.D Smile
 
Location: Western Mass. | Registered: March 02, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Two thoughts on this subject...

1. The article seams to striving for 10,000 mile oil changes. I know that many of the synthetics go this long or longer, but I use dino oil (rotella) and change it every 4,000 to 5,000 miles. It seems like that will significantly reduce my dilution.

2. What about by-passing all this emissions crap and installing a dpf delete kit. Wouldn't that resolve this issue? I know that may be illegal (if you get caught), but even so, wouldn't it solve this problem?

Grey


2008 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7L MegaCab 4x4, Edge Juice w/Attitude and love it! Semper Fi
 
Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Grey, what's a dpf delete kit please?
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Joseph Donovan:
UFO if you did read the whole article it full explains why biodiesel and not dino diesel leads to the higher wear.
Too summarize the article ,as the Bio oxidizes it becomes more polar. Well as it turns out most of the ANTI-WEAR additives added to crankcase oil is polar bonded. Polar molecules are highly attracted to each other.
As the bio oxidizes it becomes more and more polar taking away the antiwear additives.
Crankcase oil with out the anti-wear additives does not make a happy engine! Not with all the close tolerances in modern day motors.
Joe.D Smile
I went back and found I had not read the entire article. Oops, thanks for that. I did not, however, see data supporting the suppostion of engine wear. Since this post combustion extra fueling to flash off the DPF is only an interim solution to a true fuel injection in the DPF, it looks to me that a DPF delete would certainly be an option; but don't get caught. Wink


'05 CRD B100
'01 TDi B100

 
Location: Colorado | Registered: March 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I also noticed in my first read I missed the fact ULSD vaporizes off the cylinder walls more readily, allowing more bio into the crankcase than ULSD.

I keep getting the feeling the diesel auto manufacturers would prefer we do not burn biodiesel in their vehicles. Maybe one could consider it a civic duty to make sure they reliably do once purchased....like a SEGR???


'05 CRD B100
'01 TDi B100

 
Location: Colorado | Registered: March 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
"DPF", "SEGR" ???? It would be helpful to define an uncommon acronym when it's first introduced in a discussion
Hehehe. I just figured most people knew what DPF is - diesel particulate filter, the device that plugs and has to have extra fuel injected to clean it out. SEGR is a Jeep CRD term for the device that defeats the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation). The S stands for "synthetic".
Big Grin


'05 CRD B100
'01 TDi B100

 
Location: Colorado | Registered: March 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Paulus
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Posted 18 April 2008 02:34 PM Hide Post
Grey, what's a dpf delete kit please?


Paulus,
You can do a google search for "dpf delete" and find a few sources for the kit as well as more info about it (I don't know any of the details), but I think it removes your dpf and handles the computer sensors.

John,

I don't know what segr is, but dpf is a diesel particulate filter created and put on all newer (2008 and above???) deisel engines to catch the soot particles and prevent them from exiting your exhaust. This is how they can meet the upcoming 2010 emission standards.

Personally, I'm still more interested in my suggestion of oil changes every 4,000 to 5,000 miles to prevent excessive fuel contamination. Does anyone know if that would work?

Grey


2008 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7L MegaCab 4x4, Edge Juice w/Attitude and love it! Semper Fi
 
Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by grey:
Personally, I'm still more interested in my suggestion of oil changes every 4,000 to 5,000 miles to prevent excessive fuel contamination. Does anyone know if that would work?


Yes, but it could get expensive. You might want to get the oil sampled a few times to see how long you can run it. It would be great if there was a test that could be done at home to determine the amount of biodiesel in engine oil.

Ken
 
Location: Sellersville, PA | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Well, I'm already changing it every 4 to 5K. I guess it's a left over habit from driving gasoline vehicles. 3 gallons of rotella is $30. Not too much to keep my engine happy. Besides, the tar colored stains under my finger nails is one of my tactics for keeping the teenage girls from falling in love with me. It would be too much trouble for a happily married man.

I do agree that it would be great if we could have a home test for engine oil.

Grey


2008 Dodge Ram 2500 6.7L MegaCab 4x4, Edge Juice w/Attitude and love it! Semper Fi
 
Registered: November 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Besides, the tar colored stains under my finger nails is one of my tactics for keeping the teenage girls from falling in love with me.


Huh. I have always relied on my personality...


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for the heads up, fellas. The complexity of modern motors really scares me, in terms of servicing costs. Does anyone else share this unease?
 
Location: New Zealand | Registered: August 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I cannot quite pinpoint the issue but something doesn't sit right with me..

all the newer engines use glow plugs to heat/preheat the combustion chamber. does this also hold for the large truck engines?

they mention something about all the tight tolerances of the newer engines..but if they require glow plugs their compression is less than the older engines. for examples my DD8.2L turbo has no glow plugs!! its start on compression only. it also start faster on B100 than the newer diesels running D100.. my dad noticed this when a friend started is chevy diesel the other day..

while I don't anything about the emissions from my engine..I just wonder if using BD solves some of the problems?? soot and other stuff.

for oil dilution? don't know someday I should get my oil testing but its been close to 50k miles on biodiesel..

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is an option...although not cheep and not for those that like the old school way. The unit costs $350. If you could extend the time between oil changes or more impotantly now if you had fuel in your oil it would be well worth it IMHO.

http://www.intellistick.com/home.html
The IntelliStick is a compact dipstick replacement device which electronically monitors multiple conditions of engine oil and continuously scans for water/coolant and fuel intrusions.


2005 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel.
Woodmizer Sawmill with 42 hp Kabota diesel.
JD loader
B100 in summer....blends in Winter depending on weather.
GL 300 liter processor
Building a 400 liter GL Push Pull
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Mountains, California | Registered: November 14, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The complexity of modern motors really scares me, in terms of servicing costs. Does anyone else share this unease?


Personally, I don't. On the contrary: anything that may mean an improvement on the engine's efficiency literally turns me on, and so does the challenge of learning about it. That said, when an engine is made more complex for reasons other than making it run better (like it seems to be the case with the post injection), more than uneasy I get ticked off, and I automatically go into "let's disable it" mode.

For example, lately I got very excited about THIS engine, and I can't wait for it to be released.


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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My 80s Toyota diesel has 9ppm unburned hydrocarbon emissions and 1% opacity. That's as clean and efficient as any new computerized engine, gas or diesel.


Your point being...?


************************

"When you don't think what you say, you say what you think" Jacinto Benavente.

"Wars not make one great" Yoda.

"A pessimist is a well informed optimist"

WWVhaCwgSSdtIGEgZ2Vlay4gU08gV0hBVD8=
 
Location: Miami, Florida. | Registered: April 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Computers are not needed for an engine to run clean and efficient.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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