One of our customers emptied the last bit from his storage tank into his '06 Dodge truck today, and then ran into problems. Long story short, it sounds like a small amount of water had gotten into his storage tank over time, and that whatever bit of soap emulsion sat at the bottom went whoosh into his vehicle, and created today's issues (vehicle died).

(Note: all the fuel that's gone into his tank is always tested for ASTM specs, including soap, sediment and water. Customer is in agreement that this was a storage issue, not a fuel quality issue)

He pumped the stuff back out of his vehicle tank, and noticed that there was some milky stuff at the very bottom, which seemed to confirm the diagnosis above. He flushed the vehicle fuel tank with diesel and changed the fuel filter, then tried starting on diesel, with no luck. Changed the fuel filter again, still no luck. CEL is lit, as well as glowplug light. I heard the truck trying to start over the phone- sounds strong. He just can't get it to fire up.

Any ideas? To me, it seemed that he did everything right, and I can't figure out why the vehicle won't start now.

He knows he needs to clean and dry the storage tank, but at this point, it's really a matter of getting the vehicle back on the road.

Thank you.

John, we warn our customers about proper storage/pumping. We've actually been leading the way on that kind of thing for many years. I'm looking for constructive remarks, please.

Kumar, what sort of IP setup please?

The only type I'm familiar with is the Bosch VE rotary (having recently had mine rebuilt,) and you'd need to establish 1) that fuel was arriving at the injectors and 2) that the IP is pressurizing.

If there is a lift pump involved, again is the IP receiving fuel at correct pressure?

If it's common rail, arrange a bank loan.

Its high pressure common rail, which is very sensitive to water, and expensive to fix. Hook it to a code reader to find out what it says, probably IP and/or injectors bad.

Paulus,

I'm not an expert on these trucks. We have a number of customers using them, and they run great on biodiesel. This is the first time I've ever had to troubleshoot one, that I'm aware of.

quote:

Originally posted by SunWizard:
Unless he didn't fill the filter with fuel when he changed it and its an air problem.

He made sure to tell me that he bled all the air and that he filled it with fuel.

quote:

Originally posted by SunWizard:
Hook it to a code reader to find out what it says, probably IP and/or injectors bad.

Because it won't start, just to do that will require him to have the truck towed to a shop. That will cost him a lot. I guess I was just hoping that there might be other things he could do before making a significant investment. I'm really hoping someone here may have dealt with something similar. Frankly, I expected the thing to start right up after he flushed the tank and changed the filter, but I guess that expectation was based on less sensitive engines.

Kumar
-those things can be a *****! try disconecting the intake air heater and giving it a shot of brake cleaner into the air intake box, that should exit the system into operation, Don't do this without first disconecting the heater though. Tom

quote:

Because it won't start, just to do that will require him to have the truck towed to a shop. That will cost him a lot.

That will likely prevent the problem in the future. Education seems expensive until one sees the cost of ignorance.

Diesel fuel specialist here told me that common rail problems can be so expensive to fix that it can be cheaper to write the vehicle off. He spoke particularly of water in the fuel when people out in the boonies are refuelling from 55gm drums etc. He was making the point that common rail is not necessarily better than rotary or in-line IP.

Thanks BioTom, and everyone else too (jdoughy I know you haven't posted, but thanks for your help offline!)! I'm leary to recommend the brake cleaner method, because I think that a) it would likely only momentarily get things going, and b) if it's not done right, it can make things worse.

He's going to try a few more cleaning methods, and borrow a code reader from an auto shop. Once we have the codes, we'll know more.

he probably has some soap based emulsion. The dodges have a very fine screen on the intake of the the pump inside the tank. He needs to pull the bed off, remove the tank, remove the sending unit and clean that screen off.

good point hooknline

I don't know how much the 06's differ from a 99, which I have, so I could be way off here.

But on the 99's with the rotary pump, it can take a lot of bleeding to truly get all the air out of the lines after changing a filter. Has this person changed his fuel filter before? If so, then I suppose he probably knows this and really has bled all the air out, but if not... one can always hope.

There's a banjo fitting where a fuel supply line enters the pump (coming from the fuel filter housing.) If you crack this fitting, and you see fuel coming out, then supposedly all the air is gone. But I've had to get a lot of fuel to come through that fitting on occasion to really purge all the air. Also, there are a couple of pipe plugs on the top of the fuel filter housing. He may want to loosen these and make sure no air is bubbling up out of them.

I'd recommend against the brake cleaner idea. If he does want to try to use a more volatile fluid to try to get it to fire, (which is one of those 'try it at your own risk' things) WD-40 is not as volatile and has at least some lubricating properties.

quote:

Originally posted by kumar:

quote:

Originally posted by SunWizard:
Hook it to a code reader to find out what it says, probably IP and/or injectors bad.

just to do that will require him to have the truck towed to a shop

Most auto parts stores will loan out a code reader if you leave a credit card or driver's license as collateral.

Few more steps prior to & including finding out what codes it's throwing...

Flushing the tank & changing the filter won't clean out the fuel lines & injectors. Do as JG suggests & either back flush or systematically flush from the tank forward using kero, #2, or any other common fuel/additive/mixture that: won't cause issues alone or w/ #2, dissolves the soap, is miscible with free water.

TANK FORWARD. Drop the tank & flush. If the lines are long enough, drop the pickup back in - if not, reinstall tank. Connect the supply fuel line. DO NOT connect return fuel line. Put in a few gallons of chosen clean fuel mix. Remove fuel filter and bleeder valve. Bucket under filter head adapter. Turn just the lift pump on by either turning the key forward to the position just before it cranks OR find the circuit in the fuse box and jump it directly. Run the lift pump until liquid flows clean from the adapter. Install clean filter, make sure it runs clean from the bleeder, replace bleeder, if available - hand prime until stiff. Bucket under return fuel line by the tank. Run the lift pump again until liquid flows clean, but make sure with this side b/c after the filter the fuel runs under the FICM, through a dual mechanical fuel pump w/ an integrated FPR on the back side, where it splits to the fuel rail(s) & a convoluted series of lines before reaching a junction block, then running in parallel back to another junction & becoming a singular return line. IOW, run till clean, then run it some more. Reconnect the return line.

Crank & hope... definitely no guarantees as the high pressure lines will most probably still be contaminated.

Back flushing is a similar endeavor but more difficult b/c you don't have the lift pump.

I've heard you can try compressed air in both directions...

Oh, and that IP is pretty bullet proof unless it's been run dry multiple times or overworked on the low side vacuum. The injectors are a different story...

Ditto on hook's sending unit comment. The Dmax's have a funky plastic screen set inside a plastic cup w/ a one way flap valve.

EDIT: IF I SCREWED UP ANYWHERE IN THAT MESS ABOVE, PLEASE CORRECT ME! Hope this is of some assistance

This message has been edited. Last edited by: jdoughy,

I guess I didn't make myself clear. The diesel fuel specialist was saying that MINUTE amounts of water can destroy common rail. At a guess it's past home help.

Anyway, good luck.

quote:

Originally posted by Paulus:
At a guess it's past home help.

I don't think anyone disagrees, but any cheap and relatively easy things to try before sending it in to the money pit are I'm sure very appreciated by the owner of the truck.

kumar
-not to push the issue but when I had injector problems a few months back, the only way to get the beast to start when it was hot was to spray the brake cleaner, starting fluid would also work,into the air breather box. I think after cleaning the whole system there is still going to be water in the injector lines , unless he has removed the valve cover to get at the injectors. by injecting the starting fluid or cleaner, you allow the engine to run and thereby push the water out ! Tom

Agree completely.

By the way, if you feel the need to clean out fuel lines, I found carb cleaner effective. It's about a third each of methanol, acetone and toluene, and boy it's an effective solvent...and of course it absorbs water. Blow out with compressed air.

If you want to try and save yourself some money,,you could start by removing the fuel tank,,cleaning it really good,,also the screen around the pickup like another member mentioned,,fill it fresh of good fuel,,add some quality conditioner,,crank it over,,if all is ok ,,it should fire up pretty quick those 2003 and up common rail dont need bleeding,,they self bleed because of the electric pumps,,
A friend ran out of fuel just yesterday in his 2005,,we put five gallons in it,,and 30 seconds later he's back on the road,,and this guy should know,,he runs out all the time,,now on the P pumper truck,,forget it,,they are a lot of work to bleed,