I'd like to know if any of you out there have been able to successfully run Biodiesel in any Ford 6.0 liter engines for extended lengths of time on a B100 blend.
I've heard absolute horror stories about the engine in general. When Biodiesel is added to it, it just complicates things (usually for the worse).
1) How long have you been running it in your 6.0?
2) What blends are you running?
3) What modifications did you make to the truck (if any) to run Bio in it?
4) What issues have you encountered with the engine running Bio?
5) What steps do you take with your Biodiesel to ensure that it's high quality?
I finally talked to someone the other day that made it to 120K without having to replace their injectors...and that was running on diesel fuel! Before that, I'd never heard of anyone hitting 100K on the original injectors.
I'd love to hear your experience with them.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Graydon Blair,
Here's an article from Diesel Power that talks about the many problems these engines encounter...and how to deal with them.
I have 56,300+ miles on my 2005 F350 6.0. All but the first 12,000 miles have been on B100 except for a couple of months in the winter when I will run blends of B75, B50, B25 depending on how the blends in my sample bottles are doing as far as clouding/dropout. As long as the temps are above 40°F I run B100.
I made no modifications to the truck at all. I occasionally pull a 10ton log trailer behind it.
The terrain here is not mountainous but it is not level by any stretch of the imagination. Think ravines and ridgetops.
The only time I had a problem was a dirty fuel filter (the one on the rail under the drivers chair) and that occurred after having to resort to petro diesel at the tail end of a long trip.
Every year we take a 1300+ mile trip. I put a 100 gallon aux tank in the bed of the truck and we usually have fuel left at the end. It all depends on the side trips.
The earlier 6.0s did have some issues but I think most all issues were resolved with the 2005 model year. I average 14mpg.
I started out making fuel with an appleseed set up. I have always been meticulaous about quality and test each and every batch (27/3). Any drop out at all gets reprocessed. My oil generally titrates at 8.0 KOH. For the last two and a halpf years I have been processing with a BioPro 190.
Life is good!
The smell of my exhaust makes me hungry!
Ive put 6000 mi on it since march on B100. Parked it inside until last month. It still gets into the 30s at night. Its also a 2003 6.0 with 183,000 on it now. As long as you put in good fuel i belive it will be just fine. There is a banks six gun tuner. I also had to replace all the injectors last month. I learnd that once one fails they will all go. I made the mistake of replacing only 2 then 2 then i wised up and did the other 4. All happend within a few months.
I should also mention my year of Excursion has a heated HFCM. (Horizontal fuel conditioning module)
Fancy term for fuel filter and fuel pump housing.
B100 is not a blend
Been running for over 65,000 miles in my 2005. I have never had bio related "engine" problems, but I have burned through two fuel pumps, once in the summer and once in the winter. My filters were in good shape, the pump just let go. I am not sure if it was fuel related...I got to assume that it was. The first few years of the 6.0 had a fuel heater at the frame rail pump, but the 2005 does not. I don't know if that might have saved my pumps but I think it would have at least given better fuel mileage.
But I have made no changes to the engine and have had no problems under the hood. And a replacement pump now sits behind the seat. It is a 5 minute job to replace it. Messy and kinda pricey, but and easy fix.
2003 6.0 50,000 miles on bio.
no fuel related problems original c94 injectors.
all splash blended
arp head studs spartan tuned egr delete, coolant filter
I have run B-100, jet-A, Tcw3 2 cycle motor oil no fuel problems knock on wood
no fuel system mods change fuel filters every 10k
used oil analysis every 15k from blackstone labs , they say my power-stroke loves the stuff and wear metals where great if i can find the pdf they sent me i will post it.
koh t less than 6 water and drywash with purolite. 800 gallons and counting
The 6.0L Is not that BAD of an engine... it just has some inherent problems with it that are somewhat easy to fix. Delete the EGR and head stud it and your mostly good. The big problem with buying a used one is that you have no idea what has been done to it. Yes you can go to a Ford dealership and have an Oasis report run but that will just tell you what warranty work has been done. People can slap whatever tuner they wish and you will have no idea what the internals look like or if anything is about to fail. I have ran my 6.0L for about 100K on biodiesel and just last year I had a slight issue, not biodiesel related, but I had to take the motor completly apart.
The 6.0L injectors are mostly "junk" after 100K. Yes they may still work but if you hooked them up to a flow bench they would not pass. Things get worn out in the top of them from HPO shooting in. Some of the injector companies I deal with will take your old ones as cores but if you have over 100K your going to be getting a new set from them, with whatever modifications needed for your goals. My main and rod bearings were good and the rest of the motor was clean. Nothing going on with the cylinderwalls or anything, everything was good. I run B100 until I cant run it any more and then I blend down to diesel and then to straight diesel.
As I stated above inreguards to "care" for the truck, another major failure point is the cylinder heads. IF you get a truck that blew an EGR cooler or needs a headgasket job, odds are the heads are slightly warped or cracked. My heads would have been ok except I had a valve go out and jack one completly up. I have yet to see a set that didn't need decked for flatness. New heads are $1000ish a side and thats with my dealer discount, so there quite expensive. You can find used ones but odds are they have there own set of issues. I had to give a machine shop 4 heads(2 sets) and I got one good set back.
DOOM AND GLOOM TALK OVER.
Really its not that bad of an engine. If you get one that is taken care of you won't ever need to worry about heads or anything. They make ok power witha tuner and they are in the BEST trucks on the road. I have a common rail dodge and its a POS.. makes great power but on its third engine... sucks...and its wrapped around a tin can body.
The fuel filters are ultra expensive now. Thereliek 50-60 bucks at International and thats WAY cheaper than from ford. I'd put an aftermarket system on anyways. The deadhead system is not that good. Any intensive work on the truck is best achplomished by lifting the cab. You can do allot incab but its a PITA.. there is ZERO room. It takes us about an hour to an hour and a half to pull a cab and then there is all sorts of room.
I am glad to hear some sucess stories with the 6.0 and biodiesel.
I just bought an excursion, but went with the 7.3.
I have a customer with an 6.0 excursion and a dodge with the cummins. His dodge loves B100 and his excursion has been nothing but problems.
How ironic that I would find this post today. I have an 05 Dodge 2500 and an 05 Ford Excursion 6.0. I have been brewing and burning in both for the last three years. My early batches were rough and I fed both trucks a lot of incomplete reactions and emulsions. In the Dodge I have run up to B100 with no issues aside from a few clogged filters early on. Running B50 today and I notice almost no difference.
The Ford on the other hand.....I will be shelling out 4K for new injectors and glow plugs this week. Injector 1,3, and 5 are all bad. I am replacing the plugs simply because it will be open and easy to do while all 8 injectors are being done. I put 40K on the truck before they failed and the truck now has 122K (Dodge has 93K). So maybe it is just time. I had to do the EGR valve two months ago. I will not stop burning Bio in it. I burned 25% bio all last summer and did not have a problem this year until I started running 50%. This might all just be bad timing, probably is, but I do have to say the Cummins engine is so much better than the International engine they should not even be mentioned in the same forum!!!!
When you have more power and half as many moving parts in a much smaller package, you are doing something right. Then take into account how forgiving the fuel system is and it becomes a home brewers dream.
P.S. Special thanks to Graydon and Utah Biodiesel Supply. If it had not been for their newsletters, site, and products I am sure I would have done a lot more damage than just my injectors!!!!! Shameless free plug.
Are you doing the work yourself?
Cummins make sa good engine, but as I said the 6.0L are not bad if your take some preventive measures with them. head stud/egr delete and your golden. We have not had a truck come back for a while once they invested into that combo. Injectors tend to go around 100K. When I rebuilt my engine I got a smokin deal on a set from an 04 with 10K on them for like 800 bucks.
I have an 05 f350 with 90k+ on her. Been running biodiesel for 3 1/2 years. During the summer I run her on b100. In the cold of winter I will run around b50 and down to b30 when it gets into the 20's. Spring and fall I will run B80. I usually Change my fuel filters around every 5k which does get a little pricy. I have had to do a few emergency fuel filter changes but that is about it. I did change my egr valve last summer and it was clogged bad. I change the oil every 5k with synthetic oil. Part of the key with these engines is maintenance. There are couple of drawbacks using biodiesel. It cost around 40 cents more a gallon. I only get around 13.5 mpg vs 16 with dinodiesel. I have a big power loss running b100. The power loss is really noticable when pulling the horse trailer on the weekends. But these engines are so powerfull that I have never had problem I just downshift and push the engine a bit harder. I just keep a close eye on coolant temp, oil temp, pyro and boost. Maybe a tuner in the future but, that is when problems can and do arise with these engines.
2005 F350 psd 6.0
I have been running B100 on my 2006 Ford F-250 Super Duty for a little over 14 months now, with zero issues. I did install a new lift pump, and will install a heated fuel filter soon.Mostly I have read only success stories about people running biodiesel on a 6L like mine, very little on the bad stories. Most of the problems with Ford 6L engines occur with the 2003-2005 models.
Still, it is always a good idea to make sure that your vehicle is biodiesel-ready. If you don't know much about diesels, take it to a mechanic and let them know you want to run it on biodiesel, and what you need to do to make it ready. It is what I did, and have never regretted it.
So far I've logged over 120k of 165k miles, mostly on B99.
Truck is an 04 F250 Harley edition "Nice Seats" that I purchased in 2008. It has performed amazingly well on biodiesel, and the overall reliability has been above average for a typical 6 leaker. Only mods are open exhaust, EGR delete and I added custom ECM tunes in 09 which lead to head gaskets leaking shortly thereafter. The head gasket issue was most annoying, but completely unrelated to fuel. I managed to reach 150k before I had to pull the engine and do the head studs.
Fuel related issues, only a few to speak of. At around 100k the fuel pump failed on a cold day after filling with biodiesel. Can't say for certain it was fuel viscosity related, but probably was. Typically I blend 10-15% K1 in the cold months, or add more regular diesel if on long road trips. Problem I've found is the fuel tank is subject to wind chill since it hangs below the body by a few inches. Have changed a few filters along the road [REALLY SUCKS} because of this chilling issue.
Only other fuel related problems, I stuck the spool valve in 3 injector a couple months back. Not because of biodiesel, because I ran it out of fuel one to many times. One too many being the 4th time I believe... Since it needed head studs we pulled the motor and replaced 3 injectors, o-rings, oil cooler and one slightly cracked piston while in there. Now it runs great again, plus it no longer blows a gallon of water out every other week with the big tunes loaded.
Overall I think the 6.0L fuel system is very well suited for biodiesel. The low pressure [50psi] fuel system avoids possible fuel oxidation issues that could be created in high pressure common rails. No super hot pressure cooked fuel is returned to the tank here. I have a couple friends who also run our biodiesel in 6.0's. We all agree, change your oil and fuel filters regularly, then something else will typically fail before the fuel system on a 6 Liter.
My fuel sending unit went out yesterday... That could be biodiesel related. lol
Submit multiple samples to a government lab, they'll let ya know if it's not of ASTM quality.
If you have an 03 or 04 6.0 you are pretty much screwed, if you get 100K out of the injectors you will be very lucky, they have an upper head and a lower head and you have to remove both to get at the injectors, for a pro it's a 14 hour job.
My Dad has an 04 and my bio partner has an 03 the 03 is on injector set number 2, he recently traded it in on an 07, my Dads 04 is on set number two, a ford tech will tell you those are 100k injectors, there was a class action suit going until the bankruptcy then it went away and can't be started again.
I have an 03 F250 PSD and it is currently at 125000 on bio and has no problems at all.
I have no idea how the newer duramax's do on bio, 07 was the last year before they went to the DPF an urea injection.
I have always felt indebted to this forum and have gained much in the help from many of you folks
in making Biodiesel not least because we have both an old 1980 2 1/4 land rover + 99 Terrano 2.7 TDi + 02 D4D Toyota Land Cruiser. Since I had problems with the very tight tolerances within the SCValves
on the Denso pump I gathered that the quality of the fuel was to be good or rather absolutely clean with no contaminants when using B100 in Common rail engines. The early common rails I am told are more tolerant of the viscosity but never the less not at all tolerant of contaminants than the later
more modern common rails which may well be of tighter tolerances than the early common rails. I have even been told that some of the most modern Common rails are not designed to burn B100 ?
I advised that the 3/27 test should be the basic test on fuel to be burnt in any common rails and I would be interested if some one called Tilly xxxxx xxxxxxxx on 'biofuelsforum' / common rail engines using biodiesel in contradiction of most everything I wrote is more correct than I.....
What caused her rant (if she is a lady probably was the fact that I recomended a newcomer to making Bio but intends to use it in a common rail engine that the folks in the USA were very knowledgable but what stuck me as odd was that she says the Americans did nothing re reserch while the Ossies were at the 'Cutting edge' re making biodiesel???????
The excuse she gives for conducting a Bright& clear test as opposed to the 3/27 test is the fact she says is that loads of people use straight veg oil in their common rail engined vehicles although she does not have one herself ! I noted that she has a Sangyong emblem on her posting and yes this old fasioned engine (TDi) will burn SVO without a heater as I know a guy who had one for 2 years on SVO but he does not have it now. In so many words she said it did not matter about the fuel being 100% clean which I thought was the opposite of the true fact.
I am told that even B100 is too viscous for the common rails but our D4D engine is fine apart from the SCValves on the Denso pump needing ocasionally cleaning/decontaminating.
Because I think the posting by Tilly xxx xxxxxxxxxx is well worth looking at is the fact that some items in her posting is incorrect and most of all denegrating to the very astute folks in the USA. Folks such as DKenny and his many associates Graydon Blair (famous for many informative things Biodiesel) There are many many more excellent folks biding in the USA that have given invaluable advice in the making of one's own fuel over the last about 6 years (time flies don't it)
I'll be keenly looking for postings to this but I hope it hasn't stirred up a hornets nest.....
Tilly xxx xxxxxxxxxx was banned from this forum for disruptive behaviors, but comes around with a herd of sock puppets from time to time. We just ignore them and they go away.
You are quite correct; common rail engines require a much higher quality of fuel to operate reliably.
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