BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS






Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  General Biodiesel Discussion    Need help troubleshooting failed DP method
Page 1 2 

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts

Closed Topic Closed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Need help troubleshooting failed DP method
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted
I have made my first two batches from the Dr. Pepper method and am having some trouble getting acceptible results. I followed the instruction for virgin oil, I heated 1L soy oil to 55C and added 250ml methoxide (250ml methenol, 4g NaOH). The first batch, I shook pretty hard for 30 seconds. This batch never separated at all, it just made a big gelatinous blob with some liquid around it. I used the same receipe for the second batch. I didn't shake this one, I swirled it in the container for 30 seconds. It started to separate, but only about 10% had separated after about 2 hours.

I've attached some pictures, one is looking into the top of the container (this was the first batch). The side view is of the second batch after a little over 2 hours. I'm going to titrate the oil and attempt a third batch, but if anyone can give me some insight into what might be going wrong, it would be greatly appreciated.

ImageSSCN0572.JPG (24 Kb, 40 downloads) Second Attempt
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Sorry, the picture that is attached to the first message is the first batch looking down through the top of the container. This picture is of the second batch.

ImageRotation_of_SSCN0573.JPG (24 Kb, 42 downloads) Second Batch
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Where did you get the methanol? And what did you use for lye? Your results are very puzzling if you started with virgin oil and pure methanol and pure dry lye.

Finest regards,

troy
 
Location: north america somewhere close to the midwest, or not | Registered: May 29, 2004Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I used HEET (yellow bottle) from the auto parts store for the methanol and Red Devil drain cleaner (says on the label that it is 100% NaOH) for the lye. The oil is from Walmart and says that it is Soybean oil. I think that I am going to try some other cooking oil that I have and see if the result is any different.
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Do you have a scale that is very accurate at that low of a weight ? I started out with a really cheap balance type scale from Harbor Freight . When I got a good scale I found out that the cheapo one I started with was very inaccurate . I weighed out 1 gram on the cheap scale and it weighed 3.5 on a good scale .
Good Luck ,
Shannon
 
Location: Crosby Tx. | Registered: June 14, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The scale that I have is an el cheapo from walmart. Would having too much NaOH cause a reaction like what I am seeing? When I weighed out what the scale said was 4g it did seem like more than what I expected 4g to look like.
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
What was the amount of 4 grams on your scale as compared to a teaspoon or measuring cup ? I am not sure if this might be your problem or not , but so far it seems to be the only weak link . Soybean oil is one of the most common oils used in the production of biodiesel , mostly because it is one of the most common oils . Try measuring out 4 grams and then measuring it with a measuring spoon if you have one . This way we can get an idea of how accurate your scale is .
 
Location: Crosby Tx. | Registered: June 14, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
As soon as I read your post, I read the DP instructions again and noticed that it said that 4g would be about half a teaspoon. What I measured out was more like a full tablespoon full. I'm going to try another batch in the morning with half a teaspoon of NaOH and see how that turns out.
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
You might have just made alot of soap with that much excess lye . Try it with 1/2 teaspoon and hopefully it will go better . I got my scale from ebay and it was fairly inexpensive , you might want to try looking there .
Good Luck ,
Shannon
 
Location: Crosby Tx. | Registered: June 14, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Thanks for the help, Shannon. I will let you know how it turns out.
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hello bbook

Yes, too much NaOH will cause what you have shown.

The things which usually cause what you have are:
Too Much NaOH
Not enough NaOH
Not enough methanol
Water






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The adjustment of the NaOH looks like it may have fixed the problem that I was seeing. After about 2 hours the third batch looks like the attached picture.

Is there a website that has information on testing the quality of biodiesel, one that is for the layman and not for the rocket scientist? I would like to make sure that the quality of my product is good before I put into my truck.

Thanks for the help everybody, I really appreciate it.

Brian

ImageRotation_of_SSCN0577.JPG (27 Kb, 26 downloads)
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Other than testing for viscosity, are there any other tests that the average person can do to make sure that the quality of the product is good?

Also, after washing the BD from my first sucessful batch I only had about 600+ml of product. Is this normal? I may have lost some of that draining the water off from the washing.
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
That certainly looks alot more like biodiesel than the other batches . For testing your fuel you cen use the search at the top of the page and you will find several different tests that can be preformed on your fuel . There are also a few listed on the CBT site here :
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/
This is a great site with alot of good information for beginners trying to get started . You might also want to consider ordering Girl Mark's Homebrew Guide here:
http://www.localb100.com/book.html
This is a really handy refernce guide to have with you when getting started .
Good Luck,
Shannon
 
Location: Crosby Tx. | Registered: June 14, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
What do you do with the glycerol? I read through some of what is on this site, they all start off talking about the different uses and then seem to go off on a tangent one way or the other.
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Shannon,

Can you give me the manufacturer and model number of your scale? This will make it alittle easier to ensure that I get a good quality scale that I can use to up size my batches.

THanks,
Brian
 
Registered: September 10, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Here is a link to one like mine , but I am not sure I would say that it is really a high quality scale , just better than the first one I had . This scale will not weigh 1 gram very accurate , I weigh 10 and then divide for titrations . It is only accurate to +/- 1 gram , but is alot better than the first one I had . This vendor was really easy to deal with and shipped fast , but the shipping is a little over priced .
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-KITCHEN-POSTAL-LAB-diet-bowl-SC...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
Location: Crosby Tx. | Registered: June 14, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by bbook:
Shannon,

Can you give me the manufacturer and model number of your scale? This will make it alittle easier to ensure that I get a good quality scale that I can use to up size my batches.

THanks,
Brian


I have excellent luck with the triple beam balance. And it never needs batteries. It also has a higher top capacity than most of the cheapie electronic balances. And you get 0.1 gram precision.

Here's a page with a bunch of them on ebay:


http://business.search.ebay.com/triple-beam_Business-In...ZQ22tripleQ20beamQ22

These scales are accurate enough to measure specific gravity (which is handy if you're recovering your methanol by distillation and want to know if you have water contamination), and also to perform my patented quantitative water test for wvo. Handy handy handy.

Good luck and have fun!

troy
 
Location: north america somewhere close to the midwest, or not | Registered: May 29, 2004Report This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Just did my first test batch via the DP method. I got results similar to bbooks 1st batch. I then re-shook the blend & it looks cloudy with a clear 5-10% ring at the BOTTOM of the bottle. Not having a scale, I measured out a half teaspoon of lye, and used a glass measuring cup with ml increments for the methanol(Heet). What gives? I did mix all at room temps, is that the difference? Very confused, but not giving up yet! DK.
 
Location: Idaho | Registered: August 30, 2005Report This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Hello Don, congratulations on your first successful batch of biodiesel!

The ring on the bottom is the glycerine layer, the cloudy part on top is biodiesel.






 
Location: ลึก ประเทศอินเดีย | Registered: March 03, 2001Report This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  

Closed Topic Closed

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  General Biodiesel Discussion    Need help troubleshooting failed DP method

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014