Just checking on your ethics here, I have a oil source I've had for 2 years and been paying them $.25 cents per gallon the whole time. Couple of weeks went by without the usual call from them to pick it up, so I went by to see whats up and they say someone else is willing to pay an extra .25 cents per cubie! So he agreed to let me have it back at that price. My question to all of you is would you knowingly take another biodiesels oil?

Gees sounds like you hav been snaked! But as you have allready concluded you will just have to pay more. And that suxs I feel for ya

Ethics? We outbid people for oil sources, including renderers. Do you consider that unethical?

The renderers don't bother me, they are shipping it overseas anyway but I wouldnt knowingly snake a fellow homebrewer.

quote:

Originally posted by biodiesel4me:
The renderers don't bother me, they are shipping it overseas anyway but I wouldnt knowingly snake a fellow homebrewer.

As a company, that's been our policy, but I gotta say, with so many homebrewers and SVOers stealing our oil lately, it feels like the respect might be a one-way street.

We have people taking oil from our well-marked receptacles on a regular basis. Clearly different folks have ideas on what it "yours" and what is "theirs." We had to switch to locked containers; we'll see if they want the oil badly enough to break in.

I have no problem outbidding anyone for oil contracts, regardless of size. I do not discriminate based on size of the collector, though I do target renderer's contracts because they have the high-volume sources. We've actually started an informal co-op, as two people that where competing with us for oil have now joined with us. We're working on a single, compliant, properly-managed facility rather than three (no oil source bid ups now, too).

quote:

Originally posted by kumar:
As a company, that's been our policy, but I gotta say, with so many homebrewers and SVOers stealing our oil lately, it feels like the respect might be a one-way street.

Exactly. We've spent a ton of cash working towards code, being environmentally responsible, etc. Banks loans require consistent payments. When others snag our oil, it gets harder to make those payments.

We're working with a large farm co-op to start producing and selling food-grade oil to rent to restaurants - complete supply chain control. Inside containers, etc. This is the only survivable long-term model for farmers, IMO.

Guys,

Let me start by saying that there is a difference between getting a restaurant's oil contract & providing your own barrels & such, versus taking (aka stealing!) oil from their containers with/without the restaurant's permission.

It seems to me that you are confusing 'business' and 'personal'. If I want more oil sources, I have to talk with more restaurants. Their current pickup could be a major renderer or Bob up the street. Either case, the best option for the restaurant owner is for me to make an offer. I might offer a higher price, better pickup containers, better service, better contract, soap/BD for trade... The owner can make his choice as to who he sells to.

Now I'll agree that I'd rather go after the big guys first, as they're usually a breeze to gain from (poor service, little payment/no payment, always late...). But if there's a restaurant in my back yard with quantity and quality oil, it's in my best interest to try to get that oil.

The key is that there is nothing 'sacred' about other BDers. It's not like we're mafia & going into each other's territory. If they're not caring for the suppliers or paying the going rate, then they are asking for someone to take their supply. In that situation the other BDer will learn the lesson to take better care of the supply.

Nothing malicious, it's not like I want to put other BD out of 'business'. And it is not that I pursue specifically other BDers. But there are plenty of other restaurants they can pursue, including my other suppliers. I don't intend to drive WVO prices up, but if I can get another source at my flat price per gallon I will. When prices go up, I pay more. If others aren't willing to pay more, they'll lose their suppliers. It's a grown-up world out there.

Just my opinion... I suspect some flaming arrows may now start coming at me. But with those arrows, please explain why this is sacred ground. Do we not complete for jobs, homes, spouses, parking spaces, etc? Would you intentionally lose or bow out if your bowling team was competing against another biodiesel bowling team??? Seems silly to me when framed this way! My first question to restaurants is "Are you happy with your oil pickup company", nothing vicious in that.

-tony

All I'm saying is if I approach a restaurant for their oil and it is already going to a homebrewer I walk away. If it is a rendering company they are fair game. I think there is more to life than the me first attitude, and would hate to put a homebrewer out of oil for my own selfishness.

I'm a homebrewer and have written contracts with my oil sources. If they want to get out of the contract, they need to notify me a week in advance. If I want out, I need to notify them two weeks in advance.
I'm now paying one $50/month for approximately 100 gallons of good oil. They had been approached by someone offering $1/gallon, but were suspicious that the economics didn't make sense. They were afraid the $1 people would disappear after a few months when they discovered they couldn't make any money at it. (there's a sort of scam going around) I've been collecting their oil for 8 years now, and they trust me.

quote:

Originally posted by kumar:

with so many homebrewers and SVOers stealing our oil lately, it feels like the respect might be a one-way street.

That's Funny!
There isn't a single person I have spoken to or read of that has a barrel somewhere that has not had their oil stolen by a collector!

There have been reports from people who have been threatened with physical violence from collectors and a friend was recently knowingly and falsely reported to authorities by a collector as a revenge for my friend getting oil from sources that this guy previously serviced but the people think is a moron and only used him in the face of there being no alternative.

Respectful collectors!! Now that is funny!!!

I know your different Kumar as you have said before so it seems to me that you would be one of a very precious few this would apply to and by far the exception rather than the rule.


The supposition of not taking from a fellow brewer is rather a strange one.
I have never paid for oil and wouldn't do so in the immediate future so my experience is a bit different.

Myself, If I approached a source and the supplier complained the person they were giving it too was unreliable or made a mess or something else that gave the DIY'ers a bad name, I'd be in there like a flash.
A friend and I were told the other week when we were out prospecting by a restaurant that they gave it to a brewer and clearly they were impressed with them and what they did with the oil. We just said great and went on our way.

We get plenty of oil ( although we would like some more) but if I were desperate, then I might look at it more from a business proposition and try harder to win that source if I really needed it.
As mentioned above, stealing oil is not the same as competing for it on a business like level.
If you want the oil and can offer a better service or are prepared to pay more for it than the other guy to get that oil, that is unfortunate for the other person but at the end of the day, I can't find fault in it.

I'll bet veggers compete with each other every day on ebay bidding for veg related stuff and who would say there was anything wrong with that???

I'm sure the renderer's compete with other companies all the time and try to take over the collections from their competitors and I would think there was something wrong if they didn't!
That is just good business!

quote:

Originally posted by biodiesel4me:
All I'm saying is if I approach a restaurant for their oil and it is already going to a homebrewer I walk away. If it is a rendering company they are fair game. I think there is more to life than the me first attitude, and would hate to put a homebrewer out of oil for my own selfishness.

I have done the same thing.

One of my BEST sources, was snagged from me when I was asleep at the wheel. AFAIK, they aren't paying my guy, they just are providing better service. (too bad for me)

Now, one of my other sources, the restaurant that I give all my catering business to, is actually trying to compete with me!

He wants to get a diesel delivery vehicle and was asking me how hard it would be to "convert" it.

I think we should look as this as an evolving "hobby" for those of us who are in it like that. Co-ops may be the way to go. I can still get about 100 gallons/month at no cost. It titrates to like 2-3 and has very little dregs to get rid of.

Thank gawd the gas prices have come down. I won't ever give up using bio-d/wvo for many reasons. I'm just glad the fuel prices went down to stop some of the extra work I have to do to collect oil!

When prospecting potential oil sources I always take a look around back before I speak to anyone inside the restaurant. If there's only a commercial renderer's dumpster there I'll ask for the oil. If there's a container that appears to belong to a homebrewer I pass on by.

When homebrewers start to compete with one another it won't be free or cheap anymore. The only thing you accomplish by offering to pay or outbid for another homebrewer's source is driving up the price of used cooking oil. You may "win" the contract but it's only a short term gain. Once the restaurants start getting paid for their used cooking oil they will always expect to be paid for it. Eventually the renderers will start paying (or increase their current payment) for used cooking oil because they will have to outbid the homebrewers or go out of business. I can't compete with a renderer so I refuse to compete with another homebrewer. We set our own prices. Right now it's free here. I want to keep it that way.

Ken

Bunk, I agree with you, very well stated!

quote:

Originally posted by kumar:

quote:

Originally posted by biodiesel4me:
The renderers don't bother me, they are shipping it overseas anyway but I wouldnt knowingly snake a fellow homebrewer.

As a company, that's been our policy, but I gotta say, with so many homebrewers and SVOers stealing our oil lately, it feels like the respect might be a one-way street.

kumar
Here is a post you should read cross country dumpster diving.We are all over the place on some things.

Matt

The only thing here in K-town is to pay for any kind of large quantities, anything larger than 15 gallons every other week. Of course the two renderers that I am competing against is both Griffin and Valley Protein. When I talk to restraints the only response I get is “we get paid for it” but non will tell me what they get paid. Since I have contacts that are going to pay me for the process I do not have a problem with my cost. Does anyone know what the renderer is paying, and is it by the pound or gallon? I have heard both stories but still with no pricing.

quote:

Originally posted by my3sons:
The only thing here in K-town is to pay for any kind of large quantities, anything larger than 15 gallons every other week. Of course the two renderers that I am competing against is both Griffin and Valley Protein. When I talk to restraints the only response I get is “we get paid for it” but non will tell me what they get paid. Since I have contacts that are going to pay me for the process I do not have a problem with my cost. Does anyone know what the renderer is paying, and is it by the pound or gallon? I have heard both stories but still with no pricing.

K-town????

yellow grease is listed under USDA.They trade it by the Lb.Some pay by the gl. becouse the customer knows they us a 5gl. jug or two to fill the fryer..20/.40 a gallon in Mo.

Matt

It is local slang for Knoxville

quote:

Originally posted by madmatt:
kumar
Here is a post you should read cross country dumpster diving.We are all over the place on some things.

Matt

I didn't quite understand that. Is there supposed to be a link?

It turns out mine gets taken every three months. It happens when they come to clean the grease trap. It took me awhile to figure out the timing so I lost 80 gallons again but that will be the last time.