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Biodiesel Beginners and Advanced classes: Biodiesel Boot Camp

I'm teaching biodiesel homebrewing during two weekends in Febuary. You can take either one or both weekends' classes.

Locations: both of these are in Berkeley, CA-

Beginner class: Feb 17-18
Dwight Way near Sacramento Ave, hours:10-4

Advanced class: Feb 24-25
Ashby Ave near San Pablo, hours: 9-5

Each class is $120, register at www.girlmark.com/tour

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Feb 17-18: two-day class for beginners, no previous experience necessary. This is similar to the classes I normally teach every few weeks.
10-4 both days, Berkeley (Dwight Way near Sacramento Ave)

The beginners' class includes hands-on biodiesel chemistry, and an opportunity to build an Appleseed biodiesel processor if you want to buy a B100supply.com kit of parts for one. The class will include an introduction to equipment design, quality testing, quality control, the scientific process, common pitfalls, recovery from emulsions, the factors that influence 'conversion', drawbacks and advantages of biodiesel, and discussions of biodiesel versus solvent thinning or SVO technologies. You will make some common 'engineered failures' and learn what they mean. Basic safety practices are stressed.

You may use this basic class as a prerequisite for attending the advanced class the following weekend.

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Feb 24-25: Advanced Class:
Two-day advanced class covering in great detail many new things that I (and others) don't normally teach.

I will NOT be offering this class very frequently as there is limited interest in advanced topics.

I am also offering this class in Saginaw, MI in June and in Chambersburg, PA in May or June (dates to be announced at my website)


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Advanced class details:

For the advanced class, I'd like you to have some experience (see end of post for prerequisites). If you are new to biodiesel you can certainly use the beginner class the prior weekend as a prerequisite.
The advanced class is longer than the regular class- 9-5 instead of 10-4.

The advanced class includes:
quality control in much more detail than 'regular' beginners' class
analysis of real-world problems with offspec biodiesel
acid-base biodiesel process, for making biodiesel out of high-FFA oil
advanced topics in dewatering
testing for soap and what it is useful for
methanol recovery and equipment design
testing recovered methanol for purity
waterless washing with Amberlite and Magnesol
slightly larger-scale equipment design (for co-ops or small farms, etc)
Treating wash water and glycerine for disposal
testing wash water and glycerine, real-world test results related to biodegradability
in-depth disposal/sidestreams discussion
burning glycerine safely for energy
hydronic applications for biodiesel and wash water heating
More advanced discussion of safety and disaster preparation and prevention scenarios for larger-scale processor systems, discussion of regulatory topics for non-commercial producers larger than homebrew.
Solar applications for reducing energy inputs in production
very through discussion/demonstration of several different options in washing, including drawbacks and advantages of them

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No prerequisites for Beginners class Feb 17-18- no experience necessary, come on down

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Prerequisites for advanced class:
Advanced Class Feb 24-25: Prior experience required. I'm taking the unusual step of asking that you guys put a LOT of time into prep for this class if you are not already a homebrewer, and ask that you not come if you can not take the time to prepare. I want to make sure it's a high-quality discussion for advanced students (some of whom are flying in from out of town), and am restricting attendance by experience, for this reason.

this class is restricted to:
either:
1)-folks who are already homebrewing (see caveat at end of post about sources of information)

2)-folks with a LOT of experience with research AND making multiple 1-liter test batches (and it's OK if you get that experience between now and the class time, I would like you to have about 5-6 sessions of making a liter batch, washing it, and testing it under your belt-and to bring these batches in, so we can "grade your homework"- to get started now see www.biodieselcommunity.org)
3)-folks who don't homebrew but have taken a previous hands-on class with one of the following instructors, or a class from somebody else who teaches from the biodieselcommunity.org 'curriculum' and keeps up with recent developments in homebrewing in the past year:
myself, Jennifer Radtke, Kalib Kersch, "BioLyle" Rudensey, John Bush, Piedmont Biofuels folks, Matt Steiman
note: If you have only attended a class but not homebrewed, and it's been a while, I would like you to brush up by making a test batch or two and trying to wash it to completion so you can bring it to class Feb 24th.

4) students attending the Biofuel Oasis advanced course the previous week (those people only, may also attend just Day 1 of the beginners class, since they can't come to both days because of our schedules conflicting)

Note: Please note that if you primarily work from information from journeytoforever.org or From the Fryer To The Fuel Tank or from a manual from Fuelmeister or a similar plastic processor or plans you bought on eBay, AND if you do not regularly read the quality testing/quality control side of the Infopop/Yahoo Biodiesel/Yahoo Biodieselbasics/Biodieselnow homebrewing forums, you may have a lot of inaccurate information to unlearn.
I very much invite you to attend but I'd like you to do some extra reading first to catch you up on what's wrong with those sources.
B100supply.com (quality pages and 'best of the forums' section), and biodieselcommunity.org are good places to start, and biodiesel.infopop.cc has exceedingly good information these days in the various forums.


To sign up, please see www.girlmark.com/tour

Hello Mark

An interesting statement, I always thought this forum was head and shoulders above the rest of the forums as far as providing accurate proven biodiesel production information.
I would have thought that a more accurate statement might be "Infopop has always been at the cutting edge of home biodiesel production and is well known for having the best, most up to date information available on the internet"

quote:

and biodiesel.infopop.cc has exceedingly good information these days in the various forums.

It's exceptionally good these days.

Mark

It has always been exceptionally good

It was even better when Neutral was active. Or is that what you mean, the fact that Neutral has developed, tested and posted a procedure that allows you to pass the Warnqvest test using 0nly 16.3% methanol has been an exceptionally good development?
I would certainly agree with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
It has always been exceptionally good

It was even better when Neutral was active. Or is that what you mean, the fact that Neutral has developed, tested and posted a procedure that allows you to pass the Warnqvest test using 0nly 16.3% methanol has been an exceptionally good development?
I would certainly agree with that.

I was not aware that he had developed any such procedure , is there a link ?

Hello dodgeram

The testing using this procedure and an exact description of the procedure are posted Here and here

This is the formula settled on:
First Stage:140 ml methanol per litre of oil for the first stage and 5.9g KOH (Adjusted for purity) plus titration times 1.15 in the first stage.
Second Stage: Use 1.1g KOH (Adjusted for purity) in 23ml methanol.

In my mind the two major advances on this forum in the last 12 months has been Neutral's excting new method and the testing that has verified the usefuliness of the Warnqvest Test.

It is hard to believe that neither of these procedures is a "Stickey"

I think that is actually some experiments having been done with someone elses process procedure . It seems that this is anything but an example of what most homebrewers are actually working with . Are there further tests to verify that this is possible beyond the confines of the controlled enviorment of the lab ? Also have there been tests perfomed with standard homebrew quality chemicals and feedstock ? Most homebrewers will work with oil that titrates up to 8koh if they don't have a better source . If this were to be a suggested process I would expect that it would be tested in the manner equal to the parameters of the user it is suggested for , not for a perfect situation that none of us are working with .

Also the information here is exceptionally good as of late due to the efforts of many members and a lot of research that has been done commercially . There is certainly no one member here that has led to the great levels that biodiesel is reaching , it was done by everyone here .

Hello Dodgeram

This is a tried and proven technique.
People are regurlarly using Neutral's base/base method to make biodiesel that passes the Warnqvest test.

I personally think Neutral's contribution to this forum over the last several years has been head and shoulders over everyone elses, you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Out of curiosity, in your mind, what is the most outstanding information that has been posted here lately?

There is no one piece of data on this great forum that makes it the resource it is . It is rather the great volumes of knowledge that are available at one's finger tips that make this the best place on the net to discuss and learn about biodiesel . As for information that has come up as of recent postings , I cou/d name many new technologies . There is the 80/20 meathod that you wanted nothing to do with when it was discussed here a few months ago , but now that we have decided that Neutral "discovered" this procedure it seems you are now in favor of it . There is the 3/27 test that has been a great asset to homebrewers . There have been many new washing meathods , prewash , magnesol , amberlite , GL one day , etc . There have been countless equipment design upgrades that have been suggested by several members here . I think it is very narrow minded and an insult to the valued members here to think that any one member is more important than the rest . What makes this site really a great place to be is that there are so many brilliant minds working towards a common goal . To think anything less is an insult . BUT , what really makes infopop great , probably the best thread here , it just has got to be THE TILLY BASHING THREAD . LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Tilly:
Hello Dodgeram

This is a tried and proven technique.
People are regurlarly using Neutral's base/base method to make biodiesel that passes the Warnqvest test.

I personally think Neutral's contribution to this forum over the last several years has been head and shoulders over everyone elses, you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

Out of curiosity, in your mind, what is the most outstanding information that has been posted here lately?

Is this to imply that people are using the 80/20 process , or that people are trying it with the 16% methanol that is proposed above ? I have known about the 80/20 for a long long time , and yes there are several people here who use it .

Hello Dodgeram

I agree, I had a LOT of fun on the Tilly Bashing Forum.
And GL's one Day procedure is certainly near the top too.

Neutral's procedure certainly is NOT the 80/20 procedure. Calling it the same as the 80/20 method is like when Keith used to pretend every Acid/Base method was only a slight variation of the Foolproof Method.
Aleks Kac was also the first person to post a Base/Base method.
I Do not consider the 80/20 methods will be a variation of Alek's procedure.
I would love to try out the 80/20 procedure and as soon as someone posts an actual formula for it I will get right on to it.

If any of the valued members on this forum are insulted because I feel that a Research Chemist (PhD) with over 25 years experience in biodiesel research and development has been the most valueable member of this forum, I guess all I can say is Grow Up.

If you think this is an exciting time on the forum, you should have beehn here in 2001- 2004, things were really happening then.

And

PLease post (or email me privately) some links to research chemistry papers about biodiesel published by Neutral, I have not been able to find any, and, as you know, I know what his real name is.

Hmmm , It does seem you are actually correct . It seems his is a 78/22 process . I can definately see a world of difference between that and an 80/20 process . So please tell , who is it that is using this EXACT process ? I do recall there being some discussion about it sometime ago , but never did hear that anyone was actually using this process .


Oh , and by the way , there are several chemists here . I have found that they are good at telling you what works in a perfect situation , not what works in an imperfect one . Too bad most of us are working with the later . Neutral has been a contributing member here since before I came along and I have no dout he is just as important as any other , but no more important . Even the members who only post problems are promoting learning and knowledge in thier own way . NO ONE is our most important member .

Hello Dodgeram

I do understand some people have had success with the 80/20 procedure, in particurlar I see that Andrew is having some success with the 80/20 90/10 procedure on some very lightly used oil. Reading between the lines, it appears Andrew has chosen the 80/20 90/10 procedure because it is the closest to Neutral's formula.
However I was actually referring to Neutral's Base/Base Procedure.
As you know Neutral's formula is not really ratio driven, however, if your mind works better in ratios than with Formulas I guess you could look at the methanol remaining constant at the ratio of 85.9/14.1 and the KOH varying from around 84.3/15.7 to about 99.3/0.07 depending on the titration of the oil.

quote:

Originally posted by dodgeram:
Is this to imply that people are using the 80/20 process , or that people are trying it with the 16% methanol that is proposed above ? I have known about the 80/20 for a long long time , and yes there are several people here who use it .

Hello Mark
I am only aware of the research Neutral has posted to this forum.
If you would like to find out if Neutral has actually published any research papers for public perusal it would probably be best if you e-mail him direct.

I know that while my father worked for the US Navy for over 30 years as a research scientist, as far as I know none of his work was ever published in the public domain.

quote:

Originally posted by girl mark:
PLease post (or email me privately) some links to research chemistry papers about biodiesel published by Neutral, I have not been able to find any, and, as you know, I know what his real name is.

Tilly,

My vote for the best/most useful post is you introducing all of us to Warnquist 3/27. I also think the experiments neutral and you post provide some of the best info here.

I do have a couple of questions though...

quote:

People are regurlarly using Neutral's base/base method to make biodiesel that passes the Warnqvest test.

Do you have some list of people who have used neutral's recipe for 2 stage base/base succesfully? How may use appleseeds? What range of oils has it worked for? Do the people reporting passing 3/27 let the test settle or just read it right away? At what temp do they do 3/27?

Do you know how many tried it and failed? I think a few have. At least one posted detailed descriptions.

Not to say his recipe is bad. Just wondering how much data we really have at this point and how carefully the data has been collected.

I think that it is quite possible that neutral's recipe for how to perform 2 stage base/base could be an improvement over 80/20 90/10. I kind of hope so.

Andrew

Hello Andrew

You have made me blush!

I can not recall them off hand, I know from time to time people were posting that they were using Neutral's method and passing Warnqvest.
I would start looking in the thread I started, As I recall some people had posted success in that thread.
I suspect a lot of the people who passed were using Appleseeds.

Tilly

quote:

Andrew has chosen the 80/20 90/10 procedure because it is the closest to Neutral's formula.

How do you claim to know why I chose what to do?

In fact, I chose 80/20 90/10 because it was suggested/tested by VanGerpin. I may later chose neutral's recipe if it is ever shown to be superior.

By your logic, Tilly, neutral chose his formula because it was close to 80/20 90/10. I think that neutral's recipe IS IN FACT derivative of 80/20 90/10. However, it could ultimately be shown to be an improvement over it.

Andrew

Andrew ,
Are you using 16.3% methanol , or a more conventional amount in your reactions ? I think I do recall having read somewhere in your posts , but do not recall .