There is going to be so much stuff hanging off the exhaust, the simplest solution might just be a big ol' exhaust cut-out! Provided you can get the computer to ignore everything else at the same time!

Then you can flip back and forth between emissions check days and performance days!

Or better still, just wire the exhaust cut-out to open at anything more that 25% throttle when active!

Great Article!
I think it would be great if we just went to the SCR system, and do away with the DPF, and EGR.

The good side: You don't choke the power plant, and kill millage. You don't turn particulate into micro health problems. you eliminate over 80% of the pollutants, and Particulates. it works with bio-diesel.

The bad side: The big companies Yara, Dyno Nobel, Terra, PCS Nitrogen (Potash Corp.), Agrium, CF Industries, Air Blue Fluids, Cervantes-Delgado incorporated, Brentag, ETC.... These companies have turned a fertilizer chemical into a commodity traded product. So the price will fluctuate and will be an added cost to the consumer when they fill up at the pump. The price was speculated to be half the cost of diesel. Now the cost is speculated at one quarter less or at same price as diesel. The millage use has gone down. From my studies a 7 gallon tank of urea would get you 500+ miles of use. That was back in 2007 when they were just testing the stuff. Now it is speculated at over 250 miles of use. Someone is playing with figures! (I hate Corporate greed) If you don't want the SCR on your truck. You will have to get real crafty with the software. The minute your out of urea, you have a derate in the power plant and 5 starts before the system shuts down, and cannot be started till the reservoir is replenished with DEF (diesel exhaust fluid aka: aqueous urea). Any questions hit me up!

quote:

Originally posted by Rustin:
From my studies a 7 gallon tank of urea would get you 500+ miles of use. That was back in 2007 when they were just testing the stuff. Now it is speculated at over 250 miles of use.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
Feeding this system is a 5.8-gallon urea tank that is expected to last for an entire oil-change interval, but if the truck is used for extremely heavy towing it may be expended earlier.

Somehow we have an order of magnitude difference in the estimates for the tank of Urea.

Oil change = approx 5000 miles....

It certainly would make a huge difference in the marketability of the system.

So, is there a sludge that has to be cleaned from the tank?
HAZMAT?

I can see a new business springing up...

HOMEBREW UREA

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
Along with the upgrades to the lines, seals, and fittings required for the B20 fuel comes a switch away from post-injection of diesel fuel in the cylinder, in favor of injecting diesel fuel directly into the exhaust in order to purge the soot that collects in the diesel-particulate filter. This eliminates the problem of cylinder-wall wetting that can lead to oil dilution, which is exacerbated by biodiesel's higher boiling point.

I'm glad they are finally realizing the issues with oil dilution (probably not only with BD, but somewhat worse with BD).

Hopefully this will resolve the BD (B100) compatibility issues. There will just be a gap of 2007, 2008, and 2009 vehicles that are not BD compatible, but perhaps there will be retrofit kits available for these models (other than the DPF Delete kits)

I wonder if the Federal Government Bailout had anything to do with these upgrades???

quote:

Originally posted by Graydon Blair:
Also, Joe, I don't know how much of this you had an influence on, but if you did, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!
Keep pushing those Engineers to keep these bad boys compatible with Biodiesel.
It's great to have someone like you that close to them.
And give the guy's that decided to go with this decision a big High Five from all of us here.
This is just awesome news! A big win for Biodiesel in my mind.
Keep it going!
Thanks,
Graydon

Graydon, Thanks, but I didn't have too much to do with it. We really are trying to make the Duramax the best on the market. It's a slow go when you want to get everything right. And despite what every one may think, the late combustion event injection was not done to intentionally make the engine incompatible with BD. It was just the easiest way to get fuel into the exhuast to regen the DPF. Also, the new exhaust injection was not done to make it more BD compatible. There was fuel dilution even with dino D. To keep the quality high, it was replaced with the costlier, but better exhaust stream injection.
I am still after the higher-ups about smaller diesels in NA. How many of you would buy say an HHR or small pickup with a 130 hp 4cyl turbo diesel? When Mahindra starts selling theirs, I hope it will spur GM to bring one out.

Keelec,
No sludge in the DEF (urea) tank. The DEF is a 32.5% aqueous solution of urea. It's not really a HAZMAT. But it is a little corrosive. When the water evaporates form a spill, you can see the crystals forming. Water will wash it off. BTW DEF stands for diesel emission fluid.

I'll be drooling over a small Duramax all the way to the stealership...
Stupid question. What's an HHR?

I've been drooling over the Mahindra possibly coming here. I still don't have a replacement for the trusty, rusty, old Isuzu I had, but I'd LOVE to get something small like that.

Especially if the mileage was good on it. I think that'd be half the incentive for a lot of people to get them too.

I'd imagine a baby 4 cyl Duramax (ie. 2.2 liter...) would do awesome!

130 hp in a small pickup wouldn't be bad either. I'd imagine the torque would be a lot higher too.

And hey, doesn't GM need more vehicles in it's line up with good mileage for the CAFE standards?

I've been dreading the day my Mazda pickup dies, because there are no small diesel pickups to replace it with. I'm signed up to test drive a Mahindra, but like lots of other people would have more confidence buying a "Duramin", if it met our criteria (wide seats, headroom, leg-room, fuel economy, maintenance cost, parts availability/cost, etc). I would not consider a pickup that got less than 30 mpg (the Mazda gets 35).

Cheers,
JohnO

HHR is the Chevy "me too" version of the PT Cruiser.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe_M:
How many of you would buy say an HHR or small pickup with a 130 hp 4cyl turbo diesel? When Mahindra starts selling theirs, I hope it will spur GM to bring one out.

I regularly drive a Chevy pickup (gas) but also have a Jeep Liberty CRD, and absolutely love driving the Jeep. Small but good power, and turns on a dime. I think there could be a lot of interest in a small diesel powerplant. The few that have come out have shown there is some market potential out there.

BTW, thanks for sharing your knowledge with this board. Nice to hear from an industry insider with an interest in biodiesel.

Hugh

Joe,
I'd offer like Johno that the thing has to get really good fuel mileage as well. North of 30 MPG, even better if it broke the 35 MPG marker.

When it was new, my old Isuzu was capable of 40+ MPG. I'd LOVE to have something like that again.
It was slower than a snail, but for the fuel mileage it generated, I didn't mind a bit. It'd still push a solid 80 MPH on the freeway & hold it there, it just took it a while to get there. Of course, mine was a non-turbo, but I still loved the thing.

So yep, a Duramax in say a Colorado that could pull 30-35 MPG would definitely be of interest to me.
I'll pass on the HHR though. It just never appealed to me. Looks too much like a PT Cruiser (which also never got me going either; especially because the hideous thing was based on a Neon. BLEAH!)

-Graydon

I have a few questions because we've used b100 in our Toyota colorado D4D common rail engine for 8 months but recently had very bad missing problems and what we call flat spot when accellerating. I've actually cured the problem now by removing the regulating valves from the front of the 'Denso'
electronic pump and by squirting carb cleaner thro them this cured the problem completely. However I feel that it was myself that was to blame in using on the one occasion fuel that was too 'new' as I find there is a fine sediment that drops out of my fuel after days or even weeks and I thought this may have got by the filter. I filter my fuel by the way down to 1 micron (but how can one proove this designation re the filter??) I now draw my fuel from the top of a 3ft deep tank!!!
Three local Diesel specialists immediately condemnd the use of biodiesel in common rail engines out of hand. I have a pal who is a mechanical engineer and he spoke to the Bosch diesel system mechanic who told him bio leaves a deposit on everything like emammelling of the internal components !!!
I must say that these valves I removed did not show any sign whatsoever of even the slightest deposit. One more aimiable (to me anyway because he told me what I wanted to hear) is that in any case these valves are troublesome and do stick even when using mineral diesel fuel. I found also that Toyota have indeed modified this particular pump with a different pump. I would ask have they - on their new pump - upgraded the regulating valves I found sticking ??????? We have been put off by this experience by the fact that at the cheapest a pump is more than £800 and injectors £280 each and have reverted due to the lacking in concrete evidence that Bio is no good for use in common rail engines. In conclusion I have no qualms using the neat Bio in our Nissan Terrano 2.7 TDi and I find the performance no different in this vehicle to that of using minerel diesel. For that matter I could tell no difference in the Toyota either the performance with that vehicle was always outstanding with either Bio or diesel but the thought of a huge bill frightens us.. Where oh were does one find the reassuring answers - IS IT HERE ON THIS FORUM ????????????

I recently saw the internals of my Bosch VE EDC (VP37?) from my 1996 VW Passat. The vehecle had been running on FAME B100 for about four years until is went into safe mode.

The control module had a brown coating over most of surfcase. The copper parts were very clean (acid stripped?) There were some particals court in the gauzes.

The pump asambly parts were worn in most places which was to be expected on a 170k original pump.

Uncle Slabs

Looks like Ford is addressing the issue now too...
http://green.autoblog.com/2009...d-super-duty-gets-a/


Ford is claiming the 2010 engine will be compatible with B20.
They've also move the post-injection event OUTSIDE of the cylinder.

I bet Cummins won't be too far behind...
-Graydon

Looks like ford is going to be plagued by issues of heat in this new power plant. That explains why it has huge heat exchangers. One solution would be to wrap the exhaust headers on the new and up coming trucks. definitely get a turbo blanket. wrap the exhaust three feet from turbo or till you clear the power plant.

quote:

ford is going to be plagued by issues of heat in this new power plant.

sure sign of an inefficient engine

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:

quote:

sure sign of an inefficient engine

GO away JOHN! I am kidding! LOL! Ford even admits that the 6.4 is junk and has allot of recalls on it! The new power plant is going to have similar problems. Give them time they will get it right. Duramax and Cummins are having the issues of design problems as well. It's to bad. They have to meet environmental laws, and a deadline for the new vehicles. Even the great Toyota is vulnerable to the problem and is crying uncle. All I can say is this..... At least the big three are trying. Regardless that they loose cash developing these power plants! Toyota is asking for their own stimulus package from the government of Japan. And don't think Ford and Navistar are done being partners, Look up Blue Diamond Trucks. By the way did Ford collect any government cash? Is the government going to control what type of vehicles we are going to buy? For some reason the government and the Utilities are pushing for hydrogen fueled vehicles. LA is already using them in their public trans ports. What next?

Ford sells a perfectly good line of Ranger pickup trucks in Europe, all with 4-cylinder turbo-diesel engines. 2wd, 4wd, short, long, extended cab, you name it, they've got it, and have been selling them there for many years. They don't offer a single large pickup there - no european would buy such a monster (I've seen a few Chevy's with 6.2/6.5's there, however). Why doesn't Ford try to sell them here? I've never heard a reason offered by Ford, but a lot of speculation by ordinary people. It'd sure be nice to know why they're not selling them here. It's obviously not safety - they're the same body and chassis. It might be emissions, which are easier to pass in Europe, in some ways, but the differences are narrowing. It might be catalytic converters - EU fuel doesn't hurt cats, but US fuel does, if it's not ULSD. That's my best guess - many Ford truck owners will fill them with off-road fuel - farmers, contractors, etc. That's high-sulfur fuel that will ruin a catalytic convertor in a hurry, making for a warranty headache for Ford. Remember that the fuel industry claims they can't guarantee ULSD for a few more years. Meanwhile they're flogging all the high sulfur diesel thay can - it's higher profit.

Cheers,
JohnO

European and Australian/NZ diesel emissions standards would be quite adequate for most of the US. If places like Californica want higher emissions standards then they can do it locally. Nationwide B5-ULSD would do a lot to reduce emissions in older diesels, it's not rocket science. All of Canada has been using ULSD for about three years now, it wasn't that difficult to implement in a responsible democracy.

The biggest problems are political not technical.

Has anybody tried retrofitting exhaust stream manifold injectors into DPF vehicles?

For example, using caterpillar exhaust stream injectors... or perhaps using the new 2010 technology and retrofitting it into earlier engines... along with reprogramming the system to fire the extra injector instead of in-cylinder injectors?

Which brands are putting in the Exhaust Stream Injectors?

Ford 2010?
Caterpillar
Others?

Oh,
Here is a good summary article I bumped into...
But, unfortunately no "new" information.
http://www.biodieselmagazine.c...le_id=2290&q=&page=1