BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS






Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  General Biodiesel Discussion    Why 2007 & Newer ULSD Emission Vehicles Don't Like Biodiesel
Page 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ... 33

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Why 2007 & Newer ULSD Emission Vehicles Don't Like Biodiesel
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
As much as I hate Toyota! NO I hate Toyota! they are coming around. Like I said before! The manufactures are learning allot! and in a short time! Cummins is held off on development for a V configuration power plant (not a new thing for them remember the 906) for the Dodge and Nisan brand class 3 to 5 Vehicles due to budget. They have learned that the V configuration puts out less emissions then the Inline configuration makes Ford has developed a 6.4l aluminum head V configuration with the exhaust flow reversed.


1999 F-250 Running B-50 and getting over 24 miles per Gallon. and getting +/- 380 ftlbs of torque from modifications HA HA HEH! OOH! RAH! Semper Fi!
 
Location: Redding | Registered: December 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
As much as I hate Toyota! NO I hate Toyota!

Ever owned one? I bought N.American vehicles for most of my life. A few years ago when they wouldn't produce a reasonably sized diesel truck I bought a used Toyota diesel. The difference in quality and economy was amazing. I should have turned my back on N.American crap vehicles years ago. However I don't hate them, disdain and pity are more appropriate.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member

posted Hide Post
I would hope that regardless of the manufacturer, they all would figure out a way to allow higher blends of Biodiesel to be run in the engines without issues like what we're seeing with the DPF post injection based systems.

While the complex new systems on engines are partly due to the ridiculous Tier II Bin 5 requirements (which I think are absolutely absurd--but another story in and of themselves), I really wish the auto manufacturers would consider Biodiesel as a larger part of the equation when they develop new diesel engine designs.




Utah Biodiesel Supply - Biodiesel Supplies, Parts, Kits, Tutorials, Decals & More
Utah Biodiesel Supply Blog - Tutorials, Articles, Pictures, & New Products!
Free Biodiesel Tutorial Videos - Learn to make Biodiesel through videos!
Utah Biodiesel Facebook Page - Stay up to date on all things Biodiesel!
 
Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
It appears that Toyota did it.
quote:

The 2007 LandCruiser 70 Series introduces Toyota's first V8 diesel engine. The 1VD-FTE engine delivers 151kW [205 HP] of power at 3400rpm and 430Nm [317 lb-ft]of torque from 1200 to 3200rpm - the flattest torque curve in the Toyota range of engines. The 4.5-litre, 32-valve, turbocharged and intercooled, high-pressure-injection engine is standard equipment in the new eight-model 70 Series range, replacing both a turbo and naturally aspirated diesel engine.
It is matched to a five-speed manual transmission, two-speed transfer and part-time 4WD system with manual front hubs.

Toyota's new turbo-diesel V8 LandCruiser 70 Series engine has achieved better fuel economy than the smaller-capacity straight-six turbo-diesel it supersedes. The new 4.5-litre diesel V8 has ADR81/01 fuel economy of 11.5 litres/100km* [20.5 MPG] for Cab Chassis and 11.9 litres/100km*[19.8 MPG] for Troop Carrier and new Wagon. The superseded straight-six 4.2-litre turbo-diesel engine had ADR 81/01 fuel economy of 11.7 litres/100km* in Cab Chassis and 12.0 litres/100km* for Troop Carrier.

The LandCruiser turbo-diesel V8 complies with Euro IV emission standards. Its fuel economy improvement over the superseded 4.2-litre straight-six Toyota turbo-diesel engine is a result of the latest diesel design technology including high-pressure (common-rail) electronic fuel injection and a variable vane-type turbocharger.

Toyota will endorse biodiesel fuel blends using FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Esters that comply with either EN14214 or ASTM D6751 standards) of up to 5% volume concentration when mixed with conventional diesel fuel. The final product B5 (5% Biodiesel blend) at the pump must conform to the national Diesel Fuel Standard which is based on EN590.

Toyota does not use the fuel economy robbing DPF post injection based systems to achieve Euro IV emission standards



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member

posted Hide Post
Yet they still haven't brought it Stateside....I hear a Toyota Tundra in my driveway calling out for that thing.....




Utah Biodiesel Supply - Biodiesel Supplies, Parts, Kits, Tutorials, Decals & More
Utah Biodiesel Supply Blog - Tutorials, Articles, Pictures, & New Products!
Free Biodiesel Tutorial Videos - Learn to make Biodiesel through videos!
Utah Biodiesel Facebook Page - Stay up to date on all things Biodiesel!
 
Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Yet they still haven't brought it Stateside..
..at least not for the average driver. Mines all over N.America seldom use anything but Toyota diesel trucks.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Graydon Blair:
Yet they still haven't brought it Stateside.


Because it meets European emission standards, but not U.S. standards. Guess what they would have to do to meet them..........you got it, DPF! Smile


Blessings. Joe 1999 Chevy Suburban w/new optimizer 6500 TD and 1995 Chevy Cube van 6.5L. WWW.RillaBioFuels.com
WWW.RillaBioFuels.com
 
Location: Sterling Hts. Michigan USA | Registered: October 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Joe_M:
quote:
Originally posted by Graydon Blair:
Yet they still haven't brought it Stateside.


Because it meets European emission standards, but not U.S. standards. Guess what they would have to do to meet them..........you got it, DPF! Smile


Ah man...that sucks!

I wondered if the European IV was less lax than the Tier II Bin 5.

So, Joe, speaking hypothetically....do you foresee a time in the near future where a DPF could be replaced by some other method to scrub the particulates? Or possibly another way of cleaning the DPF besides using post-injection in the cylinder?

[oh please, oh please, oh please!]




Utah Biodiesel Supply - Biodiesel Supplies, Parts, Kits, Tutorials, Decals & More
Utah Biodiesel Supply Blog - Tutorials, Articles, Pictures, & New Products!
Free Biodiesel Tutorial Videos - Learn to make Biodiesel through videos!
Utah Biodiesel Facebook Page - Stay up to date on all things Biodiesel!
 
Location: Utah | Registered: October 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
Yes. Big Grin


Blessings. Joe 1999 Chevy Suburban w/new optimizer 6500 TD and 1995 Chevy Cube van 6.5L. WWW.RillaBioFuels.com
WWW.RillaBioFuels.com
 
Location: Sterling Hts. Michigan USA | Registered: October 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Rustin:
Cummins is held off on development for a V configuration power plant (not a new thing for them remember the 906) Ford has developed a 6.4l aluminum head V configuration with the exhaust flow reversed.


Cummins has made V engines for many decades. I've worked on many VT555's, VT903's, VT1710 (that's a V-12) VT3067's (V-16) and a few odd V6's. They just never were for the automotive market.
GM's LMK is a 4.5L V-8 also with flow reversed. It seems wierd to look at an engine and have there not be any exhaust manifolds. The LMK is also called the Duramax HO and nicknamed the 'Mini-Max'. Put out almost the same power and torque as the Duramax, but in a smaller package with better fuel economy and emissions. Now, tell me again how electronic controls are not improving diesel engines? Smile


Blessings. Joe 1999 Chevy Suburban w/new optimizer 6500 TD and 1995 Chevy Cube van 6.5L. WWW.RillaBioFuels.com
WWW.RillaBioFuels.com
 
Location: Sterling Hts. Michigan USA | Registered: October 18, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Because it meets European emission standards, but not U.S. standards. Guess what they would have to do to meet them..........you got it, DPF! Smile

Be that as it may, it's a moot point in the new economic realities. There are plenty of biodiesel compatible trucks sitting in the used vehicle lots. If the big three want to continue to make bad decisions then we can continue to vote with our wallets and let them do whatever they want as they slide into oblivion.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
quote:
As much as I hate Toyota! NO I hate Toyota!

Ever owned one? I bought N.American vehicles for most of my life. A few years ago when they wouldn't produce a reasonably sized diesel truck I bought a used Toyota diesel. The difference in quality and economy was amazing. I should have turned my back on N.American crap vehicles years ago. However I don't hate them, disdain and pity are more appropriate.


No I still Hate Toyota! I like and support all U.S.A made equipment As long ass it is developed and manufactured in U.S. Although it it is getting outsourced. (Canada, Mexico, etc)
And Toyota is building in the states. I don't knock there quality. After all some of it is being designed by U.S. Citizens. However it is a non American company Taking money and jobs away from us. Not that it is wrong.


1999 F-250 Running B-50 and getting over 24 miles per Gallon. and getting +/- 380 ftlbs of torque from modifications HA HA HEH! OOH! RAH! Semper Fi!
 
Location: Redding | Registered: December 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
I used to think like that about vehicles. Unfortunately, the fact remains that N.American vehicle manufacturers can no longer make the quality vehicles and appropriate vehicles we need. It's too bad that it's happened but I'm not going to condone their mistakes by buying their vehicles.

I still purchase local products and N.American products when I can find good quality, even if it means paying a bit more to keep my neighbors employed. However I'm not buying crap from any country regardless of how cheap the price might be.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
O.K. John we are in agreement! I have driven alot of foriegn vehicles. There quite good. I still Hate Toyota! Honda, Hundai, Nisan, Fuso, Hino, ETC etc... With exception of Astonmartin, Lamborghini, ETC.... their cool! FYI Graydon Blair. We will be in tier 4 emissions standards by 2010. In some parts of UTAH they are starting to pass emission standards. As to what effects on Diesel trucks I have no Idea?
Just know it is coming to your state


1999 F-250 Running B-50 and getting over 24 miles per Gallon. and getting +/- 380 ftlbs of torque from modifications HA HA HEH! OOH! RAH! Semper Fi!
 
Location: Redding | Registered: December 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
This is why Toyota suceeds while the American 'big three' flounder at best.

The Toyota Way

The 14 Principles of the Toyota Way is a management philosophy used by the Toyota corporation that includes the Toyota Production System. The main ideas are to base management decisions on a "philosophical sense of purpose", to think long term, to have a process for solving problems, to add value to the organization by developing its people, and to recognize that continuously solving root problems drives organizational learning.

Since the 1980s, Toyota and Lexus vehicles have been recognized for their quality and are consistently ranked higher than other car makes in owner satisfaction surveys , due in large part (according to Jeffrey Liker, a University of Michigan professor of industrial engineering) to the business philosophy that underlies its system of production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Toyota_Way



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
They (Toyota) model themselves after the [B]Ford[/B system and have taken it a step further
Americans have paved the way! and will do so again.


1999 F-250 Running B-50 and getting over 24 miles per Gallon. and getting +/- 380 ftlbs of torque from modifications HA HA HEH! OOH! RAH! Semper Fi!
 
Location: Redding | Registered: December 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
It appears that Ford paved the way then forgot about the importance of road maintenance.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Graydon Blair:
I would hope that regardless of the manufacturer, they all would figure out a way to allow higher blends of Biodiesel to be run in the engines without issues like what we're seeing with the DPF post injection based systems.

While the complex new systems on engines are partly due to the ridiculous Tier II Bin 5 requirements (which I think are absolutely absurd--but another story in and of themselves), I really wish the auto manufacturers would consider Biodiesel as a larger part of the equation when they develop new diesel engine designs.


I agree. Higher blends of biodiesel should be pursued and made an acceptable fuel for new vehicles. The new ASTM standard for B6 – B20 is a huge + but I’m sure standards (aside from the B100 blend stock standard) for higher blends will have to be in place before the Engine Manufactures Association and the auto industry sign on.

In my opinion, if biodiesel use is going to become main-stream, the auto industry is going to have to equip and market the vehicles as “Flex-Fuel” vehicles, similar to the E85 setup (I think E85 was a bad Idea, but some good research came out of it). In order for the strict emissions standards to be met, the ECU is going to have to have multiple calibrations covering the range from B0 to B100. In this way, the engine could be optimized for any blend ratio that is used and problems with the DPF, among other issues, could be solved.

The technology is already in place: All new light-duty automotive diesels are now common rail and the fuel composition sensors used in the E85 flex fuel vehicles has been demonstrated to effectively discern between different blends of biodiesel, so that would cover the necessary input required for the ECU to make quick and seamless engine parameter changes when switching from various blends. I’m not sure what kind of resolution is possible with these fuel composition sensors, but I’m sure they could be modified to provide adequate resolution if it is not possible as configured already.

The cold flow issues could be taken care of with the distribution network as they are now for diesel fuel; In the winter the bio distributors would just switch to an acceptable “winter blend” suitable for the regions climate.
 
Location: Maine | Registered: May 09, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
It's economically and environmentally unsustainable to produce enough biodiesel to have more than a minor contribution to the amount of motor diesel fuel used. Why should they make engines capable of running more than B20 blends?
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2976



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
It's economically and environmentally unsustainable to produce enough biodiesel to have more than a minor contribution to the amount of motor diesel fuel used. Why should they make engines capable of running more than B20 blends?
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2976
Maybe with today's techniques. In theory, algae can supply 100% of current transportation needs.
 
Location: Colorado | Registered: March 20, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ... 33 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Biodiesel  Hop To Forums  General Biodiesel Discussion    Why 2007 & Newer ULSD Emission Vehicles Don't Like Biodiesel

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014