What suprise CHP inspection? Do you know of one taking place?

When the emissions laws go into full affect they have that option. They could do an inspection on any vehicle now. If they deem unsafe or not abiding the law.

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Originally posted by Rustin:

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Originally posted by Graydon Blair:


Or just rip the DPF off the truck where you are allowed to.....

Works like a charm! (and then all of a sudden your fuel mileage goes back up, power comes back, and you can roast the tires & still get nearly 20 MPG!)

You can get away with that in your state! We hear in Caliphony land have to many WIERDOS that want to sue! The drivers in this state that rip off the DPF will get fined and or loose their vehicles when the time comes. Because of California law We have these emission standards, and the rest of the country will follow. Obama has already stated it. When the Emissions standard goes in effect not even the ships and trains or jets will meet the standard. By 2015 Commercial vehicles will not be allowed in this state unless they meet the criteria. Commercial vehicles and heavy equipment 99 or 97 and older will be outlawed!

Well...I was going to say something about the stupid California emission laws, but held back.

CARB is downright stupid!

That's why I NEVER want to live in the Peoples Socialist Repubic of Kaleeforneeya.

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That's why I NEVER want to live in the Peoples Socialist Repubic of Kaleeforneeya.

You got that right, it's worse than Canukstan, and we're admittedly socialist.

Rustin you make some disturbing statements, can you provide us with a link to somewhere official.

Your right Graydon! and to you Raften you don't need a link Go to the DOT or California air resource board page and read on smog and emissions standards set for the state then go to the California Code of law and see hat the CHP can do. or ask an officer. I don't mean to cause an alarm but you have to be aware of your local and state laws.

They been doing it! To hot rodders for years with this CARB thing!

Doing what to hot rodders?

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Originally posted by john galt:
Mine vehicles generally don't use the newer unreliable DPF technology. Toyota trucks have been the choice for mines around the world for decades. Their engines don't need unreliable computerized gizmos or DPFs to have clean emissions. To meet more rigorous emissions standards all they have to do is use B20 biodiesel blends. The crappy trucks made by the 'US big three' are not used by mines, they're much smarter than that.

It's unfortunate that you are taking this attitude toward new diesel technology. I definitely understand the distain over the DPF issue, but to dismiss electronic engine control as a whole?

IDI and PLN diesels are, or soon will be, a thing of the past for most diesel applications, just like the carburetor. Common rail, EUI, HEUI and other electronic injection strategies are here to stay. And this technology is necessary for the light duty diesel industry to compete with the higher power density spark ignition engines. You need to remember that in order for biodiesel to succeed, the diesel engine has to succeed and penetrate the market more than it currently has.

The flexibility of injection timing, duration and pressure control of common rail systems provide a level of fuel management not previously possible with mechanical injection systems. One of the most pronounced benefits of these systems for biodiesel is that the injection duration can easily be increased by simply changing the ECU fuel map to fully recover the power loss from running B100. Of course the fuel economy is still lower, but to be able to operate an engine on B100 or No. 2 and achieve the same power output with a simple fuel map change is a big plus for the promotion of biodiesel to the general public. Additionally, it is also possible to drop NOx levels to the same levels as petroleum fuels. Two relevant papers (there are many more) on the subject are:
SAE 2003-01-0768
SAE 2006-01-0235
This is just one example of the benefits of electronic injection.

There is a significant amount of good research going on right now with using bio fuels and other alt. fuels with modern engines, so let’s not condemn them for a few minor growing pains.

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SAE 2003-01-0768
SAE 2006-01-0235

Do you have a link to either paper that doesn't require paying for access?

It is to bad the HEUI injection system fell by the way side. Excelent system

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It's unfortunate that you are taking this attitude toward new diesel technology.

Do you repair these vehicles for a living, Loafer?

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Originally posted by Ryan P.:

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SAE 2003-01-0768
SAE 2006-01-0235

Do you have a link to either paper that doesn't require paying for access?

Unfortunately, you have to pay for all SAE papers and they have very strict policies on electronic distributions. Kind of counter-productive to the whole purpose of information sharing through journal articles but I guess they have to cover the publication costs somehow. Sometimes you can find them on university websites or by goggling the author's names and/or paper titles. I have had very limited success with this though.

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Originally posted by Paulus:
Do you repair these vehicles for a living, Loafer?

No I do not, and I'm unsure of what you are implying.

The equipment may be more complicated to fix, but if you remember the transition from carbs to fuel injection there was all kinds of grumbling about how “complicated” the systems were. Well, now it’s mainstream and to the point that the shade tree mechanic, like myself, can convert an old Chevy from carbureted to EFI w/o much difficulty.

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It's unfortunate that you are taking this attitude toward new diesel technology.

It's unfortunate that some of the new diesel technology is unreliable and counterproductive.
I have an '89 Toyota turbo diesel that tests 9ppm HC and 1% opacity on VO-ULSD blends. According to the techs, that's as good as the new computerized wonderwaggonz. New is not always necessarily better. Got any real world data to support the accusations? Toyota is a world leader in clean diesel technology; they've been supplying diesel vehicles to underground mines for decades. There are cleaner diesels running in the mines than in America's cities. The only problem is that America's corrupt, myopic politicians and their big oil / big auto masters won't let the general public buy them.

Toyota has become huge now! It wont be long that you will be able to buy a turbo diesel from them! they just have to meet the bureaucracy that comes with it! I have worked in the Diesel Industry and have talked with engineers of the new power plants that are coming out. They are not happy with the standards either. And as you have all said it is counterproductive right now. The systems are getting better, and in due time they maybe able to make a clean burning power plant without a DPF system. the technology is there It takes time. and like I said they are trying to meat economical and environmental demands in a short amount of time! they are even going back to old designs and tweaking with them again. So sometimes old is better. But new technology comes from understanding the old. We all strive for more efficient power plants that are powerful!

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Originally posted by john galt:
It's unfortunate that some of the new diesel technology is unreliable and counterproductive.
I have an '89 Toyota turbo diesel that tests 9ppm HC and 1% opacity on VO-ULSD blends. According to the techs, that's as good as the new computerized wonderwaggonz. New is not always necessarily better. Got any real world data to support the accusations? Toyota is a world leader in clean diesel technology; they've been supplying diesel vehicles to underground mines for decades. There are cleaner diesels running in the mines than in America's cities. The only problem is that America's corrupt, myopic politicians and their big oil / big auto masters won't let the general public buy them.

What are your NOx emissions? Also, the numbers you supplied are meaningless unless you also provide the load point at which they were measured.

Hardly meaningless since the computerized wonderwaggonz were tested under the same test conditions, idle and 2000 RPM.

According to the test techs the only other diesels that were as clean as mine were new VW TDIs. None of the N.American diesel trucks even came close; all were well above 10% opacity under the same test conditions.

If anything is meaningless it's the unsupported accusations that some are making. Let's see data.

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Originally posted by john galt:
Hardly meaningless since the computerized wonderwaggonz were tested under the same test conditions, idle and 2000 RPM.

According to the test techs the only other diesels that were as clean as mine were new VW TDIs. None of the N.American diesel trucks even came close; all were well above 10% opacity under the same test conditions.

If anything is meaningless it's the unsupported accusations that some are making. Let's see data.

What were the load conditions? The ideal load condition is the load required to move the vehicle at a particular speed, say 60 mph....

Of course acceleration loads may have to be considered too, seeing what some of these diesel trucks do, especially when modded.

BTW, my '01 TDI measured 1% opacity at 50 mph, well under the 35% opacity limit.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
Hardly meaningless since the computerized wonderwaggonz were tested under the same test conditions, idle and 2000 RPM.

According to the test techs the only other diesels that were as clean as mine were new VW TDIs. None of the N.American diesel trucks even came close; all were well above 10% opacity under the same test conditions.

If anything is meaningless it's the unsupported accusations that some are making. Let's see data.

First I would recommend reading the papers cited above. They detail the performance gains possible using a common rail system with B100 and B30 and demonstrate that it is possible to fully recover the power loss compared to petroleum diesel and reduce the NOx emissions to that of petroleum diesel.

Then,
I would read these SAE papers:
- 2001-01-1821
- 2007-01-1082
- 2004-28-0072
- 2001-01-2704
- 2004-01-0127

After the SAE World Congress in April there will be some very informative papers/studies available on the subject as well.

Additionally, Toyota’s new light duty engine line up are all common rail to my knowledge.