Do yourself a favor and run the same blend WITHOUT the DSE additive. It will run the same and you will save yourself more money.

I have read through all these threads and then some on many other forums. It seems to me that this is all a bunch of biofuel guys that are pissed off that someone is turning a profit with an idea that is easier and far less expensive to make than biodiesel. No one seems to be able to come up with a good reason not to use this product other than long term effects on the engine (which are unknown) and emissions. I may be able to somewhat answer these questions based on my experience with it. First of all, after I stopped using it when I found out I could make the DSE stuff myself for 1/10th the cost. Secondly, I have put about 135,000 miles on my 2004 6.0 F250 using their method with no problems other than having to change the fuel filters 3 times the first 4000 miles. Last but not least, emissions. Emissions are much lower than petro-diesel. So, whats the problem! The results have been the same for a few friends of mine that use the same method. I really don't understand all the anger and sarcasm towards this product.

scaryrepublican,
Yep. You've found out the same thing a ton of folks have found.

That you can do it for 1/10th the cost that DSE sells their stupid bottle of snake oil for.

There's a whole section on this forum devoted to what you're doing.

We call it Solvent Thinning. Yep. Works great too by the way.

Here's the link:
http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/frm/f/9751014871

Enjoy keeping that money in your pocket instead of in DSE's bank account.

-Graydon

We don't care for DSE because we all think it's overpriced and uses Xylene in it's mix (which isn't good for injector pumps).

That & the guy's are terrible at customer support when you try to contact them.

I've heard it from several of their customers.

-Graydon

Hello,
I am new to this forum and also new to the bio diesel world. I have searched for awhile now and like the interesting feedback I am finding about DSE. First of all I am not someone from DSE. I live in Arizona and posted an add on craigslist one day about biodiesel. I got a response from a DSE user just down the street from me. I liked what I saw and bought it. I spent my $30 something bucks and got the kit. I finally got the thing put together and have finished my first 100 miles on the DSE. So far so good. Until I notice problems I have no reason to believe that there is anything wrong with this stuff. I think people get the wrong impression about thier "two bit" station. THis is designed for the sole purpose of being cheap and easy. If they have something then great. I will keep this updated as to my findings.

This is ****e product, I have used it and all it does is cloggs filters and when you call them
then do not anser as they are too busy running from all of the peoples wanting to kick there asses, they do not anser email anyway too. I am going to call the better businesse buruea if they dont call or email me soone.

If it was genuinely "cheap and easy" you wouldn't have to buy their "secret" ingredient at really jacked up prices.

You can do the same thing that all those guys over on the "thinning" discussion groups are doing.

The only problem being, we won't charge you for our secret knowledge.

There is nothing magic about xylene, and it's pretty nasty stuff by the way.

Or try here if you are legitimately interested in doing it well, and cheaply:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/5451014871

Finest regards,

troy

Alright, I have held my tongue about DSE for a long time. I make biodiesel for a living a The University of Mississippi, and have access to the state's ASTM lab. Out of pure curiosity I bought the product, built the set-up, and took the resulting fuel to the ASTM lab for analysis. The results of which were that the fuel was VERY viscous and had a LOW flash piont. The fuel was four times as viscous and the upper limits of ASTM for diesel; this one statistic was enough to make me never use the fuel. I then took a sample and subjected it to the same tests that Graydon did, with similar results. When I tried to contact DSE, I did not get a return call but did get an email reply:

> Brad, we wish we had the time to speak with people on the phone. The
> reality is that we have a samll team of techs like myself who are the
> experts on this fuel and we have found we can answer most people daily by
> using email and scarcely half the people daily by phone. Therefore, email
> is our primary means of info unless the phone becomes a necessity for some
> special reason.
> Generally viscosity issues have to do with the following.
> Judging our fuel by the satndards of modern petrol diesel and biodiesel.
> Both fuels are thinner. Biodiesel a little thinner and modern petrol much
> thinner. Our fuel is more akin to the viscosity of petrol diesel avaiable
> 20 years ago. Before EPA regs made it thinner and almost non-lubricating in
> an effort to make it cleaner.
> If the fuel is very high in viscosity it may be due to an unusually high
> viscosity base oil. The guidelines for our mixtures are based on average
> viscosities of oils. The reality is that viscosity of veggie oils vary from
> type to type and even batch to batch from the same factory. Thus, if you
> have a thicker oil, you will have to implement winterizing steps earlier
> than normal. As far as mixing goes, always err on the side of making it
> thinner, especially in colder weather. It cost more but you will still save
> a lot of money over straight petrol. Once again, remember that our fuel will
> always
> be thicker than modern petrol which is actually too thin to be of value
> these days.


That was the reply I received. Does anyone know if there is any truth to there answer to my concern over the fuel being too viscous?
I had a elderly gentleman show up at my office just yesterday who has a truck with a blown injection pump after three months of using DSE fuel. That truck was a '78 CHevy LUV with the isuzu motor renowned for quality and built during the "old days" of diesel as described in their response to me. This is not the first person to come to me whose truck was useless after DSE fuel. Now, there is another company mimicking DSE's business model exactly http://www.biofuelbasics.com/
What should we as the biodiesel community do about people like this giving biodiesel a bad name? That man who came to see me stated that "the biodiesel I made killed my pump." He did not even realize that the DSE system was actually solvent thinning not biodiesel. Are we all just over-reacting to a true miracle product? Or, should we do something about these crooks?
>

Dear Mississippi,

I am not surprised at your well thought out experiment and findings.

Their response is poopola.

There are many large and small dishonesties from this company. In this particular response, the baloney is in the implied equality:

high viscosity = high lubricity
low viscosity = low lubricity


This is not always true, period, paragraph, full stop.

You can have low viscosity fuel (what they call "thin") with good OR bad lubricity. You could also have high viscosity fuel with inadequate lubricity. Asphalt for example. Without heating and treating, asphalt has lousy lubricity. But lots of viscosity. It's just dumb. There are so many other factors that come into play.

The other false implication is that:

If lubricity is good, then viscosity more or less doesn't matter.

You could have fantastic lubricity, but still have high viscosity problems, like trashed injection pumps.

This barely scratches the surface, but the short answer is that they are still charging a lot of money for an expensive and not-that-special "secret" additive that produces fuel that can damage your engine.

HTH,

troy

Just because Bunker C and molasses have high viscosity doesn't mean that they'll lubricate an engine.

The centistokes of a fluid has nothing to do with its lubrication qualities.

Dear Spencnaz,

EXACTLY!

Wet cement has pretty high viscosity, and pretty lousy lubricity.

Please carry on.

troy

This ought to answer it once and for all..
http://lafayette.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=58&bbb=1045&firm=90002984

"Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the BBB due to its failure to substantiate or modify advertising claims"

So I've been looking into this DSE product that Graydon speaks of. First off who would want to use a product like DSE? Not sure what the percentage of Benzene is but everyone should be aware that it causes cancer very fast in people. I should know I lost two family members due to the stuff. Another worthy note, I've been looking for someone in or around Longview Texas who makes BIO. When I found someone he had just finished rebuilding his 2002 cummins. He stated it had been running fine for 4 years on BIO but the first batch of DSE and everything from the fuel pump to the turbo locked up on him. When he took it to the shop the mech's brought him the old parts and stated this is signs of both Benzene and Xylene. They also had his truck outside and would not work on it anymore due the those chemicals in the system. Yet another note, Graydon you are 100% correct about the labeling. I work at a power plant and test fuel gas. When I take a sample I have to register it with DOT and label all 6 sides of the box prior to shipping. I do ship it with UPSG but they have to be fully aware of it and know the volume I am shipping. Not to mention I personally have to register with DOT prior to any shipping. A word to the wise, if you order a bottle and the box isnt labled as to the contents and have the DOT fire hazard lables on it dont except it. If you do you are just as guilty as the sender. Simply refuse to except the package and notify your local DOT office ASAP. Not lableing the box is a homeland security issue I think.

quote:

Originally posted by rusty0369:
A word to the wise, if you order a bottle and the box isnt labled as to the contents and have the DOT fire hazard lables on it dont except it. If you do you are just as guilty as the sender. Simply refuse to except the package and notify your local DOT office ASAP. Not lableing the box is a homeland security issue I think.

If the labeling issue is correct and anyone had a gripe and wanted to take these crooks down.... Heres your perfect opportunity!

I just discovered this product while looking for Biediesel processors on Ebay. I have a 2001 Duramax that I dont want to pay $4.97 a gallon for anymore.

As I have read your posts I am curious what is the formula that you all are using to thin the oil? This morning I talked to the owner of the local family diner who said I could have all the oil I want, but what do I do with it next to burn in my truck?

quote:

Originally posted by DCS:

quote:

Originally posted by rusty0369:
A word to the wise, if you order a bottle and the box isnt labled as to the contents and have the DOT fire hazard lables on it dont except it. If you do you are just as guilty as the sender. Simply refuse to except the package and notify your local DOT office ASAP. Not lableing the box is a homeland security issue I think.

If the labeling issue is correct and anyone had a gripe and wanted to take these crooks down.... Heres your perfect opportunity!

The problem is the DOT doesn't give a rats A$$...

We caught a guy selling KOH/NaOH/Sulfuric and a bunch of other stuff a while back sending it through the US Mail (that's so damn illegal it's not even funny! Especially in large quantities)....

Box wasn't labeled right, it went priority (that means it went on AN AIRPLANE--ever seen what sulfuric or KOH can do to an airplane body if it leaks?) etc...

Anyway, we turned them in to the DOT and they didn't do squat. Wish they would've but they didn't do a darn thing.

So, yeah, it'd be nice & all to "turn them in" but I think the DOT has better things to do than chase down a company shipping solvent thinner via US Mail (or however they send it).

They didn't even blink an eye at the stuff we reported.

Just sharin' my experience. It still ain't right, but getting anyone to do anything about it at a government level is doubtful.

Been there, done that. Got the T-shirt (and a mislabeled, busted up chemical box that arrived) to show for it.

-Graydon