The link gives a value of 2.9 billion gallons wasted. Annual gasoline useage is about 140 billion gallons, so 2.9 is only 2%. Am I missing where the 50% figure comes from? It seems like a surprisingly large percentage.
Cheers,
JohnO

how much tax revenue would be lost on gas sales if the traffic signals allowed a smoother flow for greater distances and less idling? conspiracy? maybe not so much.
a lot of the counties here in florida add a tax on top of the state tax and i cant help but wonder if the traffic signal patterns aren't made to make the commuter use as much gas as possible over a given distance.
crazy, you say? think about it good and long and think about the millions a year in tax revenue from gas sales at $0.18 a gallon.

quote:

Approximately 50% of the motor fuel in N.America is wasted idling in traffic and speeding.

Just curious, John. How much is wasted in traffic and speeding in Canukland.....

Sorry, couldn't pass it up,

Jim...

Last time I checked Canukland was still part of N.America

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan P.:

quote:

Approximately 50% of the motor fuel in N.America is wasted idling in traffic and speeding.

Do you know what the split between those 2 is? 20% to idling: 30% to speeding? Or is it more like 10% and 40%?

Do you know that if I drive 50 mph I get 30 mpg
If I drive 80 mph I get 30 mpg.

But it is true, cities are the most inefficient places. Those are the places that put up traffic lights, street lights, lights to light up the front of a building, you name it. What we need to do is get rid of the cities.

It should be noted that NY state is starting to put in round abouts to cut down on traffic congestion.

quote:

Do you know that if I drive 50 mph I get 30 mpg
If I drive 80 mph I get 30 mpg.

I think the mileage to speed relationship is highly dependent on the vehicle. For an underpowered car that is just barely able to move out of its own way; I can totally buy the mpg drop with speed. My wife's Cherokee exhibits it somewhat (17-18 mpg vs. 18-19); attribute that to the aerodynamics of a brick.

But my truck? 19mpg all day long. Uphill, downhill, fast, slow, with a trailer; whatever. The only time I have ever noticed it change was pulling an F150 on a trailer at 60 mph home on I-39; it dropped to 16mpg. And one magic week back in college where the wind must have been at my back during every commute and I got 20.5mpg.

quote:

Originally posted by ScareCrow57:
Do you know that if I drive 50 mph I get 30 mpg
If I drive 80 mph I get 30 mpg.

Yeah sure, guess what? The rest of the world does not believe that.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=slow+down+save+fuel&btnG=Search

quote:

Don't cloud the issue with FACTS, I know how I FEEL about it.

quote:

Wonder if he pays the appropriate highway use taxes on his cooking oil?

The Govenator, nah, he rides alone too, no need for body guards anyway.

But the key is that no, he doesn't pay taxes on his use, and he's bound to get out of it with the first piece of legislation motivated solely for the gain of one politician that will actually benefit the people.

quote:

To make a vehicle takes about 1/3 of the energy required to maintain a vehicle over an average 12 year lifespan.

It is difficult to get accurate data on this topic.
I found this

quote:

An article produced by the US Institute for Lifecycle Energy Analysis compared the energy and toxic substance balances over the 14-year life of a mid-sized car made in 1990. It reported that, of the total energy consumed by the vehicle, only 10 per cent was due to the manufacturing process, whereas 82 per cent came from direct fuel use or was related to the fuel extraction and distribution cycle. The remaining 8 per cent was energy used for vehicle servicing, replacement parts and insurance and financial services. Interestingly, the toxic releases are split about 50:50 between manufacture and use.

from New Scientist

And this

quote:

The average age of passenger vehicles dropped slightly from 10.1 years in 2002 to 9.8 years in 2006, with 21.0% of passenger vehicles manufactured before 1991.

They quote 12 and 14 year lifespans which is highly optimistic average.

The N.American vehicle market is more than just cars, and in 18 years the amount of expensive gizmos in vehicles has significantly increased.
Look for 'embodied energy' in vehicles and you'll get a wide range of values.

What's the point of your argument? It's not about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Vehicles that last longer and cost less to maintain are easier on the environment than hi-tech hybrids that last 10 years.

I don't think 15 years is all that optimistic. Perhaps in yuppy land, but around here it isn't unusual to see cars and trucks that are 20 years old on the highway. And in the warmer climates where they don't use salt on the roads they last even longer. I have a 1998 Lumina that has an electrical problem right now, but other than that it is still running fine. And I see many like it on the roads.

The fire department has a truck that is 21 years old, followed by one that is 15, 12, 10, and 6.

Sorry I forgot the second link
ABS

Ummm, afterthought. There are also a large number of cars that don't make it past a year because the people who drive them wreck them.

My Alfa gets nearly 30mpg if I drive gently, driving hard drops it to about 14mpg.

I get around 30 MPG all the time, no matter how fast I drive. Probably because I use cruise control. I drive a ford Escort

My 84 Ford escort diesel got 45-48 mpg till it died. My 87 Mercedez-Benz 300d gets 30 mpg on B50. The escort was a 2-door hatchback with a 2 liter 4 banger and a manual 5 speed. The Benz is a 4 door sedan with a 3 liter turbocharged 6 and a 4 speed automatic. It has ABS and an air bag and it handles better than the Escort. Too bad Benz did not make a model similar to the Escort in 1987.

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:

Vehicles that last longer and cost less to maintain are easier on the environment than hi-tech hybrids that last 10 years.

John,

I certainly agree that there is a lot to be said about simplicity in car design. And, I prefer window cranks and those old pop-up door locks. Too many horror stories about people's windows stopping working due to a short.... somewhere.

And, certainly I'd love it if we could get VW Lupo Diesel Cars (without hybrid) and 70+ MPG here in the USA... but the politicians seem to prefer that we drive Hummers rather than Lupos. And, it would be a stretch to say that a Hummer that gets 12 MPG is friendlier on the environment than a Lupo getting 70 MPG.

What makes you so sure the Prius cars will be junked by 10 years?

My parents had a 2001 and a 2004 Prius (sold the 2001 to a friend after my father passed away). Anyway, both cars are still on the road, and I don't think either has had any major repairs, or battery failures.

I suppose time will tell...
But, say the Prius gets 50 MPG vs an average non-hybrid US car getting 25 MPG.
So, at 150,000 miles, the Prius would have used about 3000 gallons of gas. The "other" car would have used 6000 gallons. At $2 / gallon, that is a savings of $6000 which should be plenty to buy another battery, should it be necessary. And, if fuel goes up to $4/gallon again... the savings would be $12,000.

Do I need to calculate the fuel cost of a Hummer getting 12MPG driving for 150,000 miles?

quote:

Originally posted by john galt:
A Hummer or other rugged SUV also has a lower cost per mile life cycle cost than a hybrid or other disposable 'shoebox' car. Light trucks last longer and deliver more miles over their life. Most people will keep a hybrid till the expensive batteries need replacing then dump it..

Any car will last as long as someone cares to maintain it.

I'm not sure if pickups get more miles than other cars... but, often the older ones are relegated to being secondary farm vehicles... and may get a lot of abuse, but not that many miles.

Yes, Hybrids are overpriced... and there would certainly be advantages of bringing smaller, more fuel efficient (non-hybrid) cars to North America, many that get better mileage than the Prius.

This always ammuses me.

The gap between the two posts above is two years and two month. But it looks as if it is part of a current conversation.

dva

And your comment is a month and 2 days after that.
Well down the recent posts list too i'd imagine.