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So with all the talk about Green Energy lately I decide to look into it. Seems like a good thing and it should be cheaper. That is what I am told because it uses renewable energy. It also reduces the amount of oil and coal used. I figure I can save a few bucks in the process.

WRONG!!!!! Green Energy actually cost more. Can anyone explain that? This is supposed to be an energy source that is not dependent on oil prices. Given that green energy costs 1 to 2.5 cents more per kwh why would I change? It should cost less, right?

Also check this out Availability of renewable power in state at issue


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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And then check this out to see the true stupidity of the enviro nuts in this state!!! Roll Eyes

The proposed Project, notice on one of the pages they talk about he multi-year task of putting in a wind farm
Adirondack Wind Energy Park

And the opposition
Adirondack Protection Organization Opposes Barton Mines Wind Power Proposal

Somebody needs to tell these idiots there has to be some give and take, they can't have it all their way


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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21 years off the grid and counting

 
Location: Muskoka, Ont, Can | Registered: March 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
WAKE UP SCARECROW AND SMELL THE COFFEE. NO MORE CHEAP OIL


ROFLMAO!!!!! Big Grin It's still cheaper than the so-called green alternatives.

It was certainly foolish of me to expect something of substance from one who's head has turned green. Razz Eek

I've got an idea. Let's cut all the subsides and tax incentives for any energy production. Then again, that would put us at a disadvantage with those countries who do subsidize energy production.

The said part is that there are alternatives, but wind and hydro should be way cheaper than oil and coal power. Problem is the greedy bastages this time aren't big oil, they are enviro friendly "green" energy producers.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Is it true that the carbon tax (already in use in Vancouver I understand) is about to be rolled out in the rest of Canada ? If so, will it make any difference in the driving habits of you canucks?
regards
dva
 
Location: Yorks,England | Registered: June 30, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not likely on both counts. Those who were going to drive more efficiently already started when the prices shot up. A couple more cents per litre is lost in the noise of price fluctuations. The whole idea for a carbon tax has been clumsily presented and has fostered more resentment than motivation for positive change.

Make Green Energy cheaper by taxing Black Energy more.

The smart strategy would have first introduced a number of personal financial incentives to use less energy and use it more efficiently. Then six months down the road start taxing carbon in fuel with a transparent accounting that shows how the fuel tax total balances the Green Incentives total. Use the same idea as lotto ticket sales funding the arts.

If they were serious about solving the problem of urban congestion and pollution, then they would do something like this, especially during smog season.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/07/20/china-air.html



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Green (renewable) energy costs more? Not surprising, since the dirty energy is already lying around all over the place, (coal, oil, natural gas) and in an easy to use, easy to transport, high density package. And we've spent the last 150+ years putting the infrastructure in place (and paying for it) to utilize it.

If you had to dig the mines, drill the wells, build the transmission lines and power plants, and roads, etc. now to use fossil fuel, it would be much more expensive.

Thats where we are with renewables. The energy is free, but the opportunity cost is high, and is reflected by the current cost. As the technology matures, the cost will come down. Eventually we will reach a break even point, and then the switch to renewables will really pick up speed.
 
Location: Charlotte, NC | Registered: July 08, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Scarewcrow, listen to Dorothy, it's not Kansas anymore....



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by dva:
Is it true that the carbon tax (already in use in Vancouver I understand) is about to be rolled out in the rest of Canada ? If so, will it make any difference in the driving habits of you canucks?


Ontario and Quebec have something on the drawing board but no idea when it will be implemented. the feds have their head in the sand so the provincial governments are taking the lead but yeah Johns right it will take higher prices yet again to change some driving habits.

Here in Ontario there are a lot of people commuting to the city from as far away as here (150km) and they will start feeling the pinch soon enough if they haven't all ready. The fuel bill will start eating a big chunk of the paycheck and too many are living from pay to pay now.

It won't take much to push them over the edge


21 years off the grid and counting

 
Location: Muskoka, Ont, Can | Registered: March 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The costs of converting to solar can be recouped in ten years at todays prices for electricity.

With a warranty of 25 years on the panels it's worth the investment and thats what it is, an investment. The up front costs make solar less attractive than paying a monthly installment (and grumbling about it) but the payback makes it worth it.

Thats at todays prices,we all know where those prices are headed for in the near future


21 years off the grid and counting

 
Location: Muskoka, Ont, Can | Registered: March 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Grid connected solar is one thing a responsible government would make more cost effective. Also encouraging companies to provide car-pool vans. There are all sorts of creative ways people could be encouraged to use green energy.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Anyone who cannot see the coming crisis is an idiot, the sooner we get off oil the smaller the apocalypse will be, if you want your kids to live like your great grand parents did keep your head in the sand.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Hoover dam completed in 1935. the St. Lawrence-Franklin D. Roosevelt Power Project completed 1958. And locally, the Sacandaga reservoir was built in 1930. Infact many hydro plants have been around for 100 years, out living their fossil fuel counter parts. The infrastructure is already in place to utilize hydro and wind power. It's just a function of connecting it to the grid. So why does hydro cost more? Clearly and without a doubt hydro and wind electricity should be cheaper than fossil fuel electricity. But they are not, because the enviros put a premium on it.

All types of generators will require the same maintenance. The difference will come from the power plant used to spin the generator. Wind and hydro need no fuel to make them spin. There is also no power plant needed to make them spin, just the blades. It absolutely makes no sense whatsoever that Wind and Hydro should cost more. In fact, there should be a waiting list to get the power, but there isn't.

My next problem is this stupid carbon tax. If you are going to charge me for the amount of fossil fuel I use then also give me credit for the open forest I preserve which removes the carbon.

I will say that Solar just doesn't seem like a very good alternative. It's too costly, less reliable, and has too many parts. Plus it doesn't work well at night like the other two options.

I think we need to follow the lead of the Chinese Hydroelectricity

quote:
Although large hydroelectric installations generate most of the world's hydroelectricity, small hydro schemes are particularly popular in China, which has over 50% of world small hydro capacity


I would think the environmentalist would be screaming at the fact that the Hydro and Wind generated electricity cost more. I would think the AGW crowd would be screaming too.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
Those who were going to drive more efficiently already started when the prices shot up.

Make Green Energy cheaper by taxing Black Energy more.


On the first point, some of us started using energy more efficiently years ago. Now I am beeing asked to cut more. I've already made my contribution to the cuts, the rest of the world needs to catch up.

As for any kind of TAX. HELL NO!!!!! We don't need no more taxes or social controls. Live free or die.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by fabricator:
Anyone who cannot see the coming crisis is an idiot, the sooner we get off oil the smaller the apocalypse will be, if you want your kids to live like your great grand parents did keep your head in the sand.


I would have to ask what crisis? There is enough fuel to last another 200 years or so. That is plenty of time to find other means. Then again, we may not be able to sustain life as we know it. Perhaps some day it will all end. The next super volcano to erupt will kill most of the worlds population. And a meter strike would be just as devastating.

And actually, the way my great grand parents lived was much better than the society we have today. People worked and earned what they had. No goofy welfare programs. A simpler life. 100 years ago, things were far better than they are today. Now we have goofball groups like PETA, Greenpeace, ELF, and a host of others advocating all kinds of bizarre policies.

Now that you mention it, we would all be better off if we went back to the way it was.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by john galt:
Scarewcrow, listen to Dorothy, it's not Kansas anymore....


My friend, I've cut to the bone. I look at the waste in each and every city and it makes me mad. Street lights, Lights to light up the exterior of buildings, traffic lights, and a host of other lights. In my house, the lights are off and the TV is off when no one is there. Air conditioning is only used in the bedrooms and when it is hot and muggy. I laugh to see a bus rolling down the street with one passenger on board. Our biggest problems are the cities. Eliminate the cities and half the problems go away.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yep always plenty of time, there was plenty of time after the last energy crisis, the next big leap in fuel mileage/hybrids/plugin cars are just four or five years away then everything will be peachy.......Bull$hit this kind of polly anna thinking has gotten us where we are today.
China is putting 25000 new cars on the road EVERY day, soon to be followed by India, oil will get more and more expensive at an exponential rate from here on out, unless we do something about it NOW our kids will face a bleak future in terms of quality of life.
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm sitting here watching a thunderstorm roll through. Wouldn't it be nice if we could harness all that power? But alas, instead we think we can control the global climate. If we can't control and/or harness the little things how do we expect to control the entire world


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Dear friends. My entire purpose for starting this thread was to point out that green energy cost more than fossil fueled energy, yet it should be less. Why isn't anybody questioning that? We have wind farms around here that I have heard set idle because the price was not right. Our windmills and hydroelectric plants should be running at full capacity all the time (when they can). Hyrdo electric and wind electric should be cheaper simply because it cost less to run.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I look at the waste in each and every city and it makes me mad. Street lights, Lights to light up the exterior of buildings, traffic lights, and a host of other lights. In my house, the lights are off and the TV is off when no one is there. Air conditioning is only used in the bedrooms and when it is hot and muggy. I laugh to see a bus rolling down the street with one passenger on board. Our biggest problems are the cities. Eliminate the cities and half the problems go away.


But of course the problem is people in cities. For cities to become more sustainable they will have to become more socialist. However the biggest cities with the most waste are in a culture which views socialist solutions as the work of the devil. There really isn't much hope for the ignorant.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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