BIODIESEL & SVO DISCUSSION FORUMS





Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Environment  Hop To Forums  General Environmental Discussion    Who says the Science is settled??
Page 1 ... 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 ... 59

Moderators: Shaun, The Trouts
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Who says the Science is settled??
 Login/Join
 
Member
posted Hide Post
I came across this pic which was titled "proof of global warming". I got a chuckle.



Dave


Imageproof_of_global_warming.jpg (42 Kb, 64 downloads) Proof of Global Warming
 
Location: Portland | Registered: March 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12voltdan:
quote:
They cover all of ScareCrow's claims it's a bit scary really, like they can read his mind.


Scarecrow has bought the denier sites message,hook ,line and sinker.He is a mirror of their propaganda. It is interesting that as each claim is debunked a new one is brought forth. If you spend some time at those sites and follow the links you find the same message at all of them,reinforcing each other.

This 40 year wind change is the latest attempt to confuse the public and once that's proven wrong a new one will come along.

As Real Climate says it's like a whack a mole game.


On another note: I ran into a kid (not so young anymore) yesterday that I haven't seen for a couple of years and was impressed with his knowledge of whats happening in regards to the climate and what the future holds. He was also able to confirm whats going on at the tar sands projects in regards to the clean up. despite the claims ,not one square inch of land has been returned to some form of natural habitat.

He is involved with the reclamation with measuring soil contamination and treatment of the 50 sq km tailing ponds that are there.

Very good money to be made for the workers,guys like me with some experience in diesel mechanics can make over 40 bucks an hour


I just read something that made me think of this very long thread. I don't know what this site is or what it's about, but the article was ok. It made me think of views such as this one and several previous ones.

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/1782/

I hate hippies, but I am glad that I, and those better than me, sacrificed and continue to do so, so they may enjoy their unique-in-the-world ability to voice whatever damn opinion they want regardless of how much it offends someone else.

John


...just my two cents.

1985 6.2l Suburban 211,000 miles. Bought to run on WVO.

1995 5.7l Suburban 238,000 miles. I've given this one to me madre as of yesterday 05 Jun 2008.

Work life: Construction laborer kid to furniture builder kid to joining the Navy, working on electronics to managing 100+ people as a Naval Officer to retired beach bum.

Home life: always learning, building, wrenching, designing, creating, bettering.

Jack of all trades, master of none.
 
Location: Lithia, FL | Registered: March 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
member
posted Hide Post
quote:
I hate hippies,


Hating people is not very nice, regardless of how much you disagree with them.

I used to not like rednecks much, but now, as I get to know some better, I realize that we have much more in common than I had previously thought.

But then again, I am kind of an odd mix of liberal and libertarian.


Andrew

http://biodieselcommunity.org
03 Dodge 2500 B100 homebrew
79 Rabbit B100 homebrew
 
Location: Northern California | Registered: February 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
In that same spirit. I first saw this story yesterday, and almost posted it immediately. But it didn't sound right. I decided to wait, and now the rest of the story.

UPDATE - Storm over global-warming sceptic hurricane man - April 30, 2008


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Heat relief

Here is the problem and explains very well why the models are not a good indicator of the future. In fact previous models failed to predict the current cooling trend that looks like it will be 20 years long, and probably longer.

quote:
Although the team’s model predicts climate well in some regions, in others it performs rather poorly, says Richard Wood, a climate modeler at the Met Office Hadley Centre in Exeter, England. “There’s a long way to go before a climate model can produce accurate results in all regions,” he notes.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Another must read Uninformed opinions: as bad as global warming
Whitman students know all about global warming. Actually, everyone knows about global warming.

We know that Al Gore won the Nobel Peace Prize for his global warming-related work, and that he made this really cool movie called “An Inconvenient Truth,” and that global warming is, like, really important…right? Duh.

But if you look on the Internet, there are actually people who are skeptical about this issue.
“What? Skeptical? How is that possible?” I hear you say. “How could they possibly not recognize this unquestionable truth that we work so hard to promote? They must be rednecks, or hopelessly ignorant. Sheesh. If they’d only take the time to inform themselves, like we do.”

Bad news, Whitman: these people are gaining some form of legitimacy. Kristen Byrnes, a 16-year-old global warming skeptic who runs the prominent Web site “Ponder the Maunder,” was recently featured in an NPR story.

The NPR story says that Kristen, who recognizes global warming but maintains that humans are not the cause, has accumulated “a mound of technical documents from the Internet” and that “Her Web site includes charts of temperature records, El Nino indexes, isotope measurements.”

This story made me think. After thinking, and consulting both Kristen’s information and other information on the Internet, I decided that you guys are right. I still think that global warming is most likely being caused by humans.

At the same time, I couldn’t help noticing a similarity between many of my peers at Whitman and Kristen’s friend, Chrissy, who was also interviewed for the NPR story. Chrissy disagreed with Kristen. “I don’t believe what you think,” she said. When asked why she believes this, she said bluntly, “I don’t know.”

To be fair, if you had a bright, detail-oriented teenager like Kristen debating against someone like her friend Chrissy on just about any issue, she’d win every time. And really, the only reason Kristen and her Web site got any attention in the first place is because she’s bright enough to make it halfway convincing.

Global warming is not really the issue here. The NPR story concluded, “It’s probably fair to say that most people—even those who have strong opinions about global warming—couldn’t make a strong scientific argument for why they believe what they believe.”

At Whitman, we’re in an extremely liberal environment where most people are politically like-minded. Because of this, we often don’t have to defend our opinions. When everyone agrees that global warming is humankind’s doing, and that it’s a huge problem that needs to be dealt with, we don’t think about why we believe those things, and in many cases, we forget.

In some ways, it’s really productive to have a group of politically like-minded people gathered together. That way, it’s possible to transcend basic arguments about the legitimacy of the discussion, and get on to the discussion itself.

But at the same time, we at Whitman can be careless, and we often adopt political beliefs without considering the issues thoroughly, simply because the position is established among our liberal peers.

What really bugs me is when students assume political beliefs superficially, more as a way of constructing a political self-image than anything else. This kind of belief is never going to be effective in any way.

So please, Whitman, let’s be a little more knowledgeable in our political opinions. Let’s gather sufficient information before we go as far as to formulate an opinion. And please, let’s be able to defend our opinions.

I also recommend you all take a look at the website Ponder the Maunder It is really interesting to see this 16 year old present a very good discussion based on science. Funny how she can see the obvious when many older and "wiser" folks cannot.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ScareCrow57:

...But at the same time, we at Whitman can be careless, and we often adopt political beliefs without considering the issues thoroughly, simply because the position is established among our liberal peers....


quote:
...What really bugs me is when students assume political beliefs superficially, more as a way of constructing a political self-image than anything else. This kind of belief is never going to be effective in any way....


This is why I hate CNN. It just tells people how to think and they do and feel aloof and knowledgeable and justified in having their empty slogan yellow ribbon bumber sticker on their huge gas-guzzling luxury vehicle while they complain about the system that makes it possible for their spoiled ass to enjoy the freedoms and luxuries that are unmatched anywhere in the frickin world.

Evolution, yeah that sounds good. Global warming, yeah I'll eat that one too. England will take care of us, yeah take my taxes, I'm too busy working hard for this tax money to educate myself about how I'm being misinformed.

Once again, I am reminded of why I am so thankful that I, and those better than me sacrificed, and continue to do so, so that anyone in our country can voice any opinion that they want no matter how much it offends someone, even if they are ignorant to the 'obvious' scientific 'opinion'.

John


...just my two cents.

1985 6.2l Suburban 211,000 miles. Bought to run on WVO.

1995 5.7l Suburban 238,000 miles. I've given this one to me madre as of yesterday 05 Jun 2008.

Work life: Construction laborer kid to furniture builder kid to joining the Navy, working on electronics to managing 100+ people as a Naval Officer to retired beach bum.

Home life: always learning, building, wrenching, designing, creating, bettering.

Jack of all trades, master of none.
 
Location: Lithia, FL | Registered: March 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
ScareCrow why have you got such a hate for Al Gore.
I can understand you disliking him had he become President and brought in laws that you didn't like.
He lost the election and I don't see how he has got anything to do with the issue.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
An article by James Hansen about tipping points
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Nice one. I'm saving that


21 years off the grid and counting

 
Location: Muskoka, Ont, Can | Registered: March 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
That's very well written. The beauty of it is that there is no way to prove or disprove it.

If this makes the eco-yuppies think their uber-consumerism is causing global warming, AND motivates them to consume less, then the lies justify the end result. So far I don't see any evidence that it's working. Lotsa talk, NO action.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
ScareCrow why have you got such a hate for Al Gore.
I can understand you disliking him had he become President and brought in laws that you didn't like.
He lost the election and I don't see how he has got anything to do with the issue.


Al Gore is the leader for this movement. He is often cited as being an expert (yet has no science) He runs around the country with his sideshow and produced the inconvenient truth, a movie which is full of inaccuracies, misleading statements, and sentimental emotions. He is making millions off of this movement and investing more. He is interested in getting into the billions of dollars available for green technologies for his investments. Other than that, the man is a pathological liar.

What is funny is that recently I have been thinking about where we would be now had Gore been elected President (sore loser that he is). I'm sure that the ethanol/biofuel fiasco would be exaggerated 10 times over. This economy would have crashed much sooner. We would still be in the middle east fighting terrorist, I don't care who was President, we were not letting those radical Islamist get away with what they have done. Although, the Clinton administration, which Gore was part of, did let them off the hook for the USS Cole. In fact, Clinton could have taken out Bin Laden but chose not to because there was a Saudi Prince in the area.

If the man was truthful and honest It would be one thing. But all he is doing is going around giving people false fears about things that won't happen and that man has no control over.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sinbad:
An article by James Hansen about tipping points


Interesting article but it lacks balance. For instance, he only talks about positive feedbacks. Anyone with at least half a brain knows that there are also negative feedbacks. For instance, A warmer ocean will increase plant life activity, thus using more CO2. In fact, there will be longer growing seasons, with increased areas for growing, this too will lead to a decrease in the CO2 available. Another place he lacks balance, the ice sheets and glaciers. One, realize that a melting ice sheet does nothing to raise the oceans. Next, studies are showing that while West Antarctica is losing ice, East Antarctica is gaining. Yet he ignore that. And then there is the movement of species. Talk to the older folks around here, Used to be wild turkeys everywhere. As a kid growing up (I'm around the half century mark) I never saw a wild turkey. Only in the last few years have they made a comeback. It's all part of the natural cycle.

A truly unbiased scientific article would address the trade-offs, the pluses and minuses, the pros and cons, the negatives and the positives of any issue. How many times have we heard that more people will die from heat related deaths? Why do they not also at the same time talk about the reduction in cold weather related deaths?

I believe I provided a link to Ponder the Maunder, the scientific research and discussion by a 15 year old by the name of Kristen Byrnes. I recommend all take the time to read what she has done. Unlike the alarmist/activist arguments this young lady actually looks at the science and uses the science in her discussions. She also goes through Al Gores film and analyzes it. You will notice the lack of bias here as well. Amazing that a 16 year old can see what many 60 year olds can't.

If you read nothing else I recommend you read this Ponder the Maunder From the intro -
quote:
Global warming is an issue of great importance. Let there be no doubt, the evidence is overwhelming: Earth is warming.

The questions that remain are;

1. What is the cause of the global warming? Is it man made atmospheric carbon dioxide? Or is the cause of global warming natural variability?
2. How will politicians spend money while waiting for the answer to question #1?


As an example of the insight this young lad has I provide the following
quote:
The greatest disservice to understanding global warming has been the introduction of politics, rather than the analysis of quality science. When a scientist publishes a study, that study should be reviewed by another or group of scientists who then publish their review. The initial scientist then has an opportunity to refute anything in the review. A separate group of scientists should then publish an objective finding of what was learned. This process would ensure a much more effective advancement of science and learning. But unfortunately this is not the case. There are corporate and business interests that use their economic power to corrupt science to ensure profits. There are also people who are so polarized by their political beliefs that they are incapable of considering new data unless it supports their views. Both sides are guilty of each and there are scientists who are harassed by each side. Both sides are supported by financial interests, whether it is “big oil,” “green industries who want sequestering contracts” or “countries seeking payments, technology transfers and industrial competitive edges.” And both sides are severely biased by polarizing views. What both sides need to do is realize that there is good data being discovered in each new study that is published.


If you don't take the time to read these essays and works then you are doing yourself a great disservice. You don't have to believe it, but it should at least make you think.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by john galt:
That's very well written. The beauty of it is that there is no way to prove or disprove it.

If this makes the eco-yuppies think their uber-consumerism is causing global warming, AND motivates them to consume less, then the lies justify the end result. So far I don't see any evidence that it's working. Lotsa talk, NO action.


More importantly, no matter what happens there will be an "I told you so". There is no way he can be wrong.


"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" Dorothy Gale
 
Location: Upstate, NY | Registered: November 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
It is settled,but certainly not in the direction of the IPCC and the Hansen Idiots.

I assure you the grid energy that is enhancing the weather is periodical and the 10.5 periodi city plus the 1050 periodicity are what we are experiencing at this time ,the warming in the last 20 or so years is from the energetic components of the 1050.

I do not like the word Maunder or solar minimum or maximum,although one only has to remember the weather enhancements of 1966,1977,and the rest of the 10.5 periods to get that there is some rhyme to that process.

Glaciers melt from below from magma temp being up from the 1050 remnants returning on the oxygen long line that it travels upon,ask me to prove that,its simple.

We live in this engineered cymatic based universe and anything that effects our quadrant,effects our grid.

Weather will be enhanced more at main node belt areas and on the way to large "grounds" and a grid map can give you a heads up,it really is simple.

The fake science boys heve never been taught grid science and can be drove to any wacky non-sensical process their ordering folks want to drive them.

Poor old Al Gore is just a naive man whose heart is in the right place for the fear that has been installed in him.

Just ponder also that carbon is just carbo-hydrates,be they bonded or un -bonded they are from plants,all of them.

There is too much carbon components in the upper atmosphere,but that does not cause warming or enhanced weather.

There is not one climatologist that can explain the grid to anybody,that takes a grid scientist.

They do not even understand the formation of a rainbow,let alone how aether flows into the magma.

So,please do be skeptical about whats being brought around your heads,and please do follow the money.
 
Location: Michigan | Registered: May 03, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
What is funny is that recently I have been thinking about where we would be now had Gore been elected President (sore loser that he is). I'm sure that the ethanol/biofuel fiasco would be exaggerated 10 times over. This economy would have crashed much sooner. We would still be in the middle east fighting terrorist, I don't care who was President, we were not letting those radical Islamist get away with what they have done. Although, the Clinton administration, which Gore was part of, did let them off the hook for the USS Cole. In fact, Clinton could have taken out Bin Laden but chose not to because there was a Saudi Prince in the area.



That is just partizan politics not science.
If the west wasn't addicted to middle east oil the Cole would not have been there defending America's interests. They only bomb us because we invade their countries and steal their oil.
If we left them alone they would leave us alone.
Why do you think they hate us so much.
Oh and Osama Bin Ladin is a Saudi Prince, who gave up wealth and power to fight the west.
He is considered a really richeous dude in the middle east which is why no body has tried to claim the reward.
Know your enemy.
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
we invade their countries and steal their oil.

Because China owns a big chunk of the US debt, and has been increasing America's credit limit for years. China is bankrolling the war in Iraq, and US lives are being lost to secure Iraqi oil for China. It's much easier for China to hire US mercenaries to do their work. Most American's will never understand this, and that's what makes the Chinese so deviously clever about this Sweet Crude End Game. The poor Yanks never saw it coming...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john galt,



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
They do not even understand the formation of a rainbow,let alone how aether flows into the magma.


Really wiki
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Member
posted Hide Post
Your right there John.
The funny thing is it is the US that pushes free trade so hard. Sowing the seeds of their own doom.
It's the same over here, back in the 50s Australia had the highest standard of living in the world.
We exported lots and imported nothing. Today we import much more than we sell and have a huge foreign debt.
Lennon said "The capitalists will sell us the rope to hang them with"
 
Location: Nimbin Australia | Registered: December 04, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
The US idea of "free trade" is just a euphemism for "heads we win, tails you loose" as it applies to free trade with Canada and Mexico.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 ... 59 
 

Sponsors    Biodiesel and SVO Forums Home    Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Environment  Hop To Forums  General Environmental Discussion    Who says the Science is settled??

© Maui Green Energy 2000 - 2014