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Anthropogenic Global Warming- Your thoughts please
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Questions for everyone to ponder, and perhaps answer in this thread, which I did not put in the politics section because this debate has been infiltrating biodiesel threads, and frankly, is at the heart of why many of us use biodiesel:

1) Much current research shows the average global temperature increasing more in the past 50 years than at any other point in recorded history. How can this be explained?

2) Hurricanes have gotten much more severe in recent times. There is the notion that global warming may be playing a destabilizing role here. What do you think about that?

3) If so-called "greenhouse gas" emissions are bad, why is that? Are there both accute and chronic effects of the accumulation of these gasses in the atmosphere?

4) There are many pictures available on the internet of retreating glaciers. Recent discoveries of corpses buried thousands of years ago suggest that glaciers are melting. Ice cores also suggest this, showing decreased salinity in ocean water due to increased melting of freshwater ice. If this is not evidence of global warming, what is it? If it is evidence of global warming, then does it make sense to look for the cause, to avoid the consequences that rising oceans, for instance, can have on the planet's inhabitants, including people in low-lying areas?

5) Do you care about declining population of polar bears, movement of plankton to the north and fewer whale births? Do you think these things could be pointing to the consequences of global warming?

6) If you look at the horizon on a warm summer day, you'll notice a haze. The haze is pollution, and the fact that you can see it lends credence to the idea that it is staying in the atmosphere and trapping heat, right?

Question:
Do you believe in man-made global warming?

Choices:
Yes
No
I honestly have no idea

 


Kumar Plocher
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Location: Ukiah, CA USA | Registered: September 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by kumar:
Questions for everyone to ponder, and perhaps answer in this thread, which I did not put in the politics section because this debate has been infiltrating biodiesel threads, and frankly, is at the heart of why many of us use biodiesel:

1) Much current research shows the average global temperature increasing more in the past 50 years than at any other point in recorded history. How can this be explained?

If you devided up a clock face to represent the four point five billion year age of the Earth then put recorded history on that clock face it would be nano seconds, in unrecorded history Earth has warmed enough to evaporate the Mediteranian and gotten wet enough to make the Sahara green and fertile

2) Hurricanes have gotten much more severe in recent times. There is the notion that global warming may be playing a destabilizing role here. What do you think about that?

Hurricane intensity and frequency has always been variable, this year ther were no dangerous hurricanes that affected the U.S.

3) If so-called "greenhouse gas" emissions are bad, why is that? Are there both accute and chronic effects of the accumulation of these gasses in the atmosphere?

Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is like a transparent blanket, sunlight passes through but and the radiant heat it creates is held in the atmosphere, the "chronic" effect is rising atmospheric temperatures

4) There are many pictures available on the internet of retreating glaciers. Recent discoveries of corpses buried thousands of years ago suggest that glaciers are melting. Ice cores also suggest this, showing decreased salinity in ocean water due to increased melting of freshwater ice. If this is not evidence of global warming, what is it? If it is evidence of global warming, then does it make sense to look for the cause, to avoid the consequences that rising oceans, for instance, can have on the planet's inhabitants, including people in low-lying areas?

Earth has gone through countless warming and cooling periods since it cooled from a molten ball, it will continue to do so long after humans have become extinct or have moved out among the stars. Unfortunately global warming has now become the world third largest religion so no meaningful causal dialog is possible any longer

5) Do you care about declining population of polar bears, movement of plankton to the north and fewer whale births? Do you think these things could be pointing to the consequences of global warming?

Yes x 4

6) If you look at the horizon on a warm summer day, you'll notice a haze. The haze is pollution, and the fact that you can see it lends credence to the idea that it is staying in the atmosphere and trapping heat, right?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fabricator,
 
Location: West Michigan | Registered: April 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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http://wattsupwiththat.com/200...he-context-of-scale/

Lord Monckton adresses a Greenpeace-campaigner on global warming and answers Kumar's questions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzkB5DuveDE



I'm an earth scientist and an engineer. I've been working in the field of energy conservation and alternative energy for 40 years. My 'eco-footprint' is far far less than the N.American average. My low energy house is heated by renewable energy, and the electricity is renewable source as well. My vehicle fuel is about 50% renewable. I use biodiesel to reduce pollution.

I'm also smart enough to see through the AGW scam.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"John", neither the video nor you have addressed the following:

Do humans create massive amounts of gasses that are trapped in the atmosphere and that keep heat in? If they do, how can you say that our effect is on par with the natural temperature swings of ancient history, as the guy in the video tries to do, and how can you say that we shouldn't take it seriously? And if you think that humans don't create gasses that act this way, how can you defend that position?


Kumar Plocher
Yokayo Biofuels
Yokayo Biofuels Facebook page
.........../ \..............
fueling / R \ evolution since 2001
'''''''''''''/____\'''''''''''''''''''

Sustainable Biodiesel...
 
Location: Ukiah, CA USA | Registered: September 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<DCS>
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I believe the earth may be going through a warming cycle but mans influence on that is impossible to determine because we have not had the technology to monitor things long enough. There is no doubt the earth goes through these cycles on it's own so the question is whether mans influence is akin to the effects of urinating on a Bushfire in the overall scheme of things or more significant.

In any event, the greed of big business and politics will make any worthwhile and effective attempts to address the situation completely null and void because the scenario they want to peddle will always take absolute preference over the truth.

Right now all this global warming BS is just a distraction from the lousy job politicians are doing of the job for which they are elected for and getting rich not doing it.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by DCS:
I believe the earth may be going through a warming cycle but mans influence on that is impossible to determine because we have not had the technology to monitor things long enough.


Then I ask you the same question I asked "John Galt" (see above). It would seem to me that if you agree that we are dumping massive amounts of material into the atmosphere that hold heat in, then we are aiding global warming, and that is something we should address in an effort to preserve the delicate balance of resources we depend upon to survive, both now and in the future. Of course, if you don't agree about that, then it follows that there is no responsibility to do anything. But be careful, you can't agree, and then say you don't have a responsibility. You can't have it both ways.


Kumar Plocher
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Location: Ukiah, CA USA | Registered: September 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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ok..do humans cause global warming?

let's back up..

what happened the ozone scare.. did it go away or was it just media hype? was it real to begin with?
I think was a natural event..nothing to do the CFC's..

now about C02.. a real problem? or a long term natural event? no one alive today has been around long enough to know. in fact recorded records are long enough.. the last ICE age was 10K years ago. do we know that in 10yrs the cycle won't start downward..global cooling? NO..we don't we can only guess and look at trends..sometimes this trends point in the wrong direction. I don't know if this is the case.. DO volcanic erruptions release CO2 and other gases? you bet they do..how much is released? by this natural event?

for hurricanes this year..WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?? if global warming theories are true we should have had another bad year..but we didn't?? HEY I'm not complaining here..thankful instead..we do get hurricanes in NC after all..

what we all need to be worrying about..is our foot print left on the earth..
1. how much water do you use..what's it source?
2. how long do you let you car/truck idle? I'm some other boards where members let their truck idle for 30-60minutes just to warm up? I think this is BAD! and no it doesn't matter how cold it is outside..if the oil flows it lubricates..it doesn't need much warm up time. now that said..emergency vehicles..different category.
3. how many people just let there car/truck run at idle..when its hot or cold..I see more when it hot. but that's latitude for ya..


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's sure a great way for us to keep transfering wealth out of the United States on our road to becoming a third-world nation.

I can't believe anyone buys into this crap. In fact, I'm disappointed in myself for dignifying the topic with a response at all.

Cheers, John
 
Registered: June 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by john galt:

I'm also smart enough to see through the AGW scam.


In order for there to be a scam, there has to be some kind of ill-gotten gain. Where's the gain? Where are the rich scientists? You're essentially saying that the majority of climate scientists around the world is basically an industry of fraud, so you tell me, why?


Kumar Plocher
Yokayo Biofuels
Yokayo Biofuels Facebook page
.........../ \..............
fueling / R \ evolution since 2001
'''''''''''''/____\'''''''''''''''''''

Sustainable Biodiesel...
 
Location: Ukiah, CA USA | Registered: September 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by dukegrad98:
It's sure a great way for us to keep transfering wealth out of the United States on our road to becoming a third-world nation.


John, I don't see the connection.


Kumar Plocher
Yokayo Biofuels
Yokayo Biofuels Facebook page
.........../ \..............
fueling / R \ evolution since 2001
'''''''''''''/____\'''''''''''''''''''

Sustainable Biodiesel...
 
Location: Ukiah, CA USA | Registered: September 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I hate to break up the party boys and girls, but this whole conversation is a moot issue in my mind.

Like so many other problems in our world, we are missing the bigger picture.

It doesn't matter if global warming is real or not. What matters is what we do, or don't do about it, and the consequences of being wrong.

Think about it...

Just my 2 cents.

(EDIT) Changed Mute to Moot

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Murphy,


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Registered: March 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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murphy..
wrong like the ozone scare? or right about the ozone scare..that never was about CFC's but about cheap refrigeration for 3rd worlds countries?..maybe the volcano near the antarctic that caused the ozone depletion? not the R12.

maybe the global warming isn't an issue but a way to push a political agenda? for whose? I don't care.

I think everyone must be good stewards of the earth..in everything we do..

so if anyone care..I don't run BD to not use dino oil..I'm cheap..and its a good idea..it to cost more to make BD than buy dino..hum..I'd buy dino..that said.. I do respect those that would pay more for BD just because..for what I need to drive the cost is too much..fyi if you think a fill up that cost $50 is too much your not close. I normally put 80-90 gallons at a time in my bus and that last 10-12 days..so about $250 every 10-12 days..got the idea..I'm cheap..

how do we know its not the remove of trees and forest that causing global warming?
cows?

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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5 scientific tests of the hypothesis that CO2 from human activities causes global warming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFHZOYtAztU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9IHKfzDdn8

Watch the video, draw your own conclusions.

quote:
we are dumping massive amounts of material into the atmosphere that hold heat in, then we are aiding global warming,
It's not 'massive' on a global scale, and the amount and significance of that 'aiding' is the point of contention. The point is that it's not significant.

quote:
The media, special interest groups, and even some government produced literature all report that CO2 is the most important greenhouse gas. I was at the Canadian Museum of Nature a few months ago where a traveling display was set up that clearly, and erroneously I might add, indicated that CO2 was the most important greenhouse gas. The number one greenhouse gas is actually water vapor. It's something like 98 percent, by volume, of all greenhouse gases. I like the way that my colleague, Jan Veizer at the University of Ottawa, a world-renowned expert on the carbon cycle, lists the relative importance of greenhouse gases when he speaks on the topic. He points out that the number one greenhouse gas is water vapor, the number two greenhouse gas is water vapor, the number three greenhouse gas is water vapor, the number four greenhouse gas is water vapor and CO2 is a distant fifth. Of course, this list is somewhat facetious as there is only one type of water vapor. However, he lists the relative importance of greenhouse gases this was to indicate just how insignificant the tiny carbon dioxide cycle is to the water vapor cycle that it piggybacks on. To give you an example of this comparison lets consider the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. In the 19th century, when the world was relatively unindustrialized the level of CO2 in the atmosphere stood at around 285 ppm. By 2003 the level of CO2 in the atmosphere, primarily the result of industrialization and land use changes, stood at 376 ppm. The resultant influence on climate has been minimal. Computer models say that this increase in CO2 should have heated the Earth up significantly by this stage. However, very little warming that can be attributed to CO2 has actually occurred.


Now lets have a look at what happened during 1997-98. There was a major El Nio on in the equatorial Pacific, that many of you may recall had a significant influence on global weather. However, it also a major influence on global temperatures. They started to go up in response to the enormous amount of water vapor that was pumped up into the atmosphere. In just a few months global temperatures spiked by nearly 1 degree Celsius above what they had been before. If you watched any television at the time you would have heard newsreaders on all networks, almost gleefully exclaiming that we were seeing the major global warming that was supposed to occur. Much to their disappointment temperatures quickly dropped off again, within a few months, as the El Nio ebbed. That collapse in global temperatures didn't get any coverage by the media though. And, so, there we were, right back to normal. This example of El Nio fueled injection of water vapor into the atmosphere provides a very good example of the relative impact of CO2 and water vapor as greenhouse gases.

But what about CO2 and climate change? Atmospheric CO2 concentrations have increased to 376 ppm in 2003, about a 30 percent increase from pre-industrial times. Most of that increase has been due to fossil fuel burning and land use changes. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. CO2 can and does have an impact upon global temperatures. But what impact will it have? The idea put forward by the IPCC is that CO2 the major greenhouse gas and any increases in the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere will cause a major warming in earth's climate. This scenario is at odds with the empirical evidence recorded in the geological record. http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=010405M

empirical evidence is real data, not like computer models and other crystal ball projections

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john galt,



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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n order for there to be a scam, there has to be some kind of ill-gotten gain. Where's the gain?

European fraudsters steal $7B in carbon credit scam

Carbon Credit Scam

For the scientists committing fraud it was the gain of fat government grants to 'prove' the AGW agenda. Most scientists are not interested in personal wealth. The much bigger motivation factor is how many staff they can hire, so the staff can feed the publication mill that makes the scientist famous.

Fat government grants and contracts = more staff and more power within the academic system.



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by kumar:
quote:
Originally posted by dukegrad98:
It's sure a great way for us to keep transfering wealth out of the United States on our road to becoming a third-world nation.


John, I don't see the connection.


Last week in Denmark, world leaders like Bobby Mugabe and Hugo Chavez received standing ovations to the idea that N.Americans should be paying a hefty 'green guilt' 'carbon tax' so our governments can send money to Bobby, Hugo and their friends to maybe plant trees, so that maybe the planet won't get warmer.

The warm mongers are severely out of touch with reality.... Europe has outsourced it's dirty business, imports it's oil and shuffles it's energy programs between nations to give the illusion that something is being done. North America does the heavy lifting and has other issues. How many European forests are available as carbon sinks? How much oil do they produce, how about coal? Importing manufactured products then preaching to the rest of the world how clean they are is fraud, as is adjusting research data to fit preconceived conclusions.

The recent carpet baggers convention was an attempt to tax functioning economies into paying for the slackard socialist way of life that the politically correct have developed. This whole thing is a naked attempt to redistribute wealth to those who find it easier to tax than work.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: john galt,



 
Location: coldest N.America | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Last week in Denmark, world leaders like Bobby Mugabe and Hugo Chavez received standing ovations to the idea that N.Americans should be paying a hefty 'green guilt' 'carbon tax' so our governments can send money to Bobby, Hugo and their friends to maybe plant trees, so that maybe the planet won't get warmer.



sorry not sure who Bobby Mugabe is..but I could careless about Hugo..global warming or otherwise..
Hugo is a dictator!! to me this is wrong!

first prove global warming is human caused!! sorry this hasn't been done! sure temp might be rising for record history..UH!! for the last 200years..out of at least 6000 years humans have been around.
200 out of 6000+..0.03..not enough time to tell anything.

don't take that statement to mean we should care about the environment..NO WE MUST CARE!! we all have only one place in space to live!!..if we cannot live here..then where..

I don't care for the hpye/mis information/ misleading facts..opinions that make others wealthy..

so anyone know what happened to the hole in the ozone layer that was going to destroy us all??
gee maybe CFC aren't that bad..but someone made money by forcing the switch from R12 to R134? what's wrong with propane?..please don't think I kidding here..it makes a great replacement for R12..in a sealed system..flammability shouldn't be a problem. unless the conditions are just right it less flammable than gasoline.. I think our leaders were misled on its dangers..STOP AND THINK HERE..an AC system might hold..2 LBS!!!..YES THAT MUCH..slightly more than a disposable propane torch!!..but your gas tank..is ...well 1 cup is equal it 1 stick of TNT!! but this is safe?
1 gallon is 16 cups or 16 sticks of TNT?? this is safe?? HOW?
thankfully most on this site use Diesel or better yet biodiesel..Smile

so why not use it..if am AC system must be evacuated..what's done with 'dirty' R12/R134.. dirty propane..take it home and make dinner.Smile

-dkenny


'84 bluebird school bus, DD8.2L turbo( 4/2011, the bus tranny has died..Frown 8.23.11 bus driven to scrap yard Frown )
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD Smile - the wife's
99 dodge 2500 5.9l 24v..-mine Smile
everything run B100 when its warm enough Smile
 
Location: RTP, North Carolina | Registered: December 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One way to spot a scam artiest is their story keeps changing. "Global warming" became "climate change" because the warming was not happening. Had to change the story. You will always be correct of you claim change will happen.

I have done a little research on what could, or would, warm a globe. I have heard people are the problem. No, wait, it is cars. Did we say cars, we meant cows are warming the globe. The story keeps changing.







People, cows, and cars did not not warm the globe. Could it be the sun?



Yes the sun can warm a globe. I need some grant money to continue my important research.
 
Location: Virginia | Registered: March 17, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Location: :-) Great White North eh ? | Registered: December 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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quote:
1) Much current research shows the average global temperature increasing more in the past 50 years than at any other point in recorded history. How can this be explained?



Its called climate change. There used to be dinosuars walking around and now there is not. There used to be no coal in the Powder River Basin and now there is. Climate change is very real, its been happening for awhile.


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Location: Webb, MS | Registered: January 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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2) Hurricanes have gotten much more severe in recent times. There is the notion that global warming may be playing a destabilizing role here. What do you think about that?



What? There hasn't been a major hurricane outbreak since 2005. Funding for Dr. Gray needs to be endend since you brought it to my attention.


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2004 F250 w/Edge Platinum
both on B100
 
Location: Webb, MS | Registered: January 29, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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