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The GM 5.7 Olds 350 Diesel Thread
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quote:
Originally posted by Turbo.bimmer:
I'm curious about the solid copper head gasket. I was told in another forum to use the Victor .010 over head gasket. Which one would be better? Also how are you guys getting 35 mpgs? I only get 22 mpg's driving with an egg between my foot and the pedals.


The solid gasket was one of the first attempts to get these heads to stop going south. Ended up using them on the 6.2s as well. Problem was, you had to have the block and heads machined to accept a fire ring and you had to use the ARP studs for constant clamping load.

Both Victor and Felpro sell a 10 over gasket for this engine but if the heads and block are flat there really is no need. The stock Felpro (new design) is as good as it gets. If you have to mill the block or heads to get them flat then go with the 10 over gaskets. For the 5.7 I still suggest the ARP studs as the TTY bolts, even the new design, don't have the clamping load. The 5.7 doesn't have enough bolts in the head and any stress shows up very quickly with the TTY bolts.

Over the years I have installed this engine in perhaps 12 cars, a couple of trucks and a boat. The trucks never got over 30 MPG which is understandable, and the cars with the three speed trannys would make perhaps low 30s on a good day. Any of the cars with the 200R4s, would get a consistant 35 to 40 MPG as long as you kept it down to 55 - 60MPH. 70 MPH would cost you 2-3 MPG. All except the trucks were equipped with either the 2.93 or 2.73 gears, running 235 75 tires. The boat used 1/2 the fuel of the two gassers they replaced (350 Olds Marines)with about the same useable power though not the same top speed.

To avoid confusion, these figures are based upon Imperial gallons (about 20% larger then the girlie gallons most of you use south of the 49th). This would lend credibility to some of the above figures of 23-30 MPG. If its mileage your after, then the OD tranny plus 2.73 (or lower)gears set up for 1,800 RPM at highway speeds is manditory. Try not to get it under 1,600 RPMs as the torque curve drops off quickly under that. The stock pump is fine but turn the pump back about 1/8th of a turn from stock settings. Makes the acceleration even more doggy but will return some great mileage at highway speeds. The super low initial gears in the 200R4 makes for acceptable acceleration around town, but once into third it really shows its lack of HP.

Bill


91 Buick Roadmaster wagon, GM 6.2 diesel conversion (gone but not forgotten
89 GMC 6.2 (Just got rid of the last pieces)
84 Mercedes 300D (gone to the great autobahn in the sky)
94 Cadillac Fleetwood (Sold before I could convert it)
 
Location: Manotick, Ontario Canada | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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MORNING TO ALL THE GOOD FOLKS, I AM NEW TO THIS THREAD AND TO 5.7 DIESEL USE IN GENERAL. I HAVE SEEN ON YOUTUBE A COUPLE OF GUYS CRANK A 5.7 SITTING ON THEIR GARAGE FLOOR WITHOUT ALL THE RELAYS IN PLACE. I WAS WONDERING WHAT ELECTRICAL CONNECTIONS ARE REQUIRED TO CRANK THIS ENGINE ON THE FLOOR OTHER THAN THE OBVIOUS STARTER CONECTION. I HAVE AN ENGINE SITTING IN THE CAR FRAME WITH NO BODY (NO RELAYS) THAT HAS BEEN SITTING 15 YEARS SO I NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO HOOK TO A BATTERY TO CRANK IT. THANKS FOR ANY INFO SOMEONE CAN PROVIDE.
 
Registered: September 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi to all,

I have 2 diesel cars (an 81 Olds 5.7 and an 84 Chevette) that haven't run in 24 and 15 years respectively. Both were running ok when parked because of transmission problems. What should I do to prep them before attempting to start them after all these years besides change the oil & filters and drain the tanks and add fresh diesel fuel? Thanks, Mike in NC.
 
Location: Raleigh, NC | Registered: September 19, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Mike:

Any engine or for that matter, any piece of machinery that has sat dormant for any length of time must be brought back to life carefully and very slowly. Suggest the following:

1. Remove all the glowplugs from the engine (see above postings about possible swelled glowplugs)

2. Fill all the cylinders with some form of penetrating oil. I use brake fluid but any good penetrant should work. Let it sit for three or four days. Hey its been 15 years. What's another week?

3. Remove the dome from the top of the IP, suck out the old fuel and refill with pure Stanadyne additive. Re-install the dome, making sure the rack is properly seated on the fuel shut-off solinoid. The dome should try to spring forward on you before you push it back into position. Also drain the filter, fuel tank and fuel lines at the same time.

5. Remember, all the lubricated surfaces are now dry except perhaps the cylinders (penetrating oil). This step is easier if you install a direct read oil pressure gauge (mechanical)into the oil pressure switch. If you have the room, there is either a vacuum pump or what appears to be a block off plate at the back of the engine where one would expect a distributor on a gasser. These are the oil pump drives. Remove the drive and fabricate a drive system to fit in the chuck of your electric drill (you can do it by hand but it will take awhile). Turn the oil pump till you start to get oil up into the galleries and or you have achieved at least 10 lbs. of oil pressure. Replace the drive.

4. Using a long breaker bar and the appropriate socket, use the crank damper bolt to carefully "rock" the engine to free up any siezed bearings or rings. Do this very carefully so as not to break anything. If you feel any real resistance....stop....then rotate the other direction. Much like cutting in a new thread with a tap and die. Your objective here is to be able to turn the engine over till it rotates without resistance. Once free, rotate the engine completely 15 or 20 times. It is very possible that you will have one or more stuck valves. If any contact the piston, stop. Turning it over on the starter will do alot of damage. This is common on these engines even if they are left for a few days, let alone 15 years.

5. After putting in new fuel, bleed the system. If your car doesn't have an electric pump, use the bleed line coming off the top of the filter and apply vacuum using a brake bleeder pump or if your brave, just suck on it till you get clear fuel. Transparent fuel line is a good investment for this kind of operation.

6. Crack open all the injector feed lines.

7. With the glowplugs still out of the engine, two fully charged batteries and the wire to the fuel shutoff disconnected, it is now time to try it on the starter. Rotate the engine a few revolutions, listening carefully for any knocks or bangs indicating things like stuck valves, siezed waterpumps etc. Now run it on the starter till you get a reading on your oil pressure gauge.

8. Connect both the fuel solinoid and the HPCA and crank the engine till you are getting fuel from all the injector lines that you have cracked open. Tighten up all the lines and continue cranking until you get little puffs of vapor from all the glowplug holes. Re-install all the glowplugs after testing to make sure they all work (hook them up directly to one of the batteries...should take no more then 7 seconds to glow the entire length).

9. This step is very important. With the air filter removed, fabricate a block off plate out of at least 3/4 inch plywood that totally covers the intake. If your engine has the EGR installed in the center of the intake, then you will have to cut out a hole to accomodate the valve. Make sure when you are finished that the plate totally covers the intake and prevents any significant air from entering the engine. The reason for this is simple. If you have not re-installed the dome on the IP properly or the IP is siezed, you run the risk of engine runaway. If this happens, nothing you do with the fuel or ignition key will stop it in time. That means you have to cut off the engines air supply. The plate has to be strong, ergo the 3/4 inch ply. A 5.7 liter engine turning at 4,000 RPMs makes for a very effective vacuum cleaner.

10. While fabricating your block-off plate, put a charger on your batteries. You will need all the power you can get.

11. Now the fun begins. Make sure the glowplug controller is cycling properly (should be about 10 seconds). Make sure you have tightened up all your fuel lines and injector lines and that all the glowplugs are installed tight. Cycle the glows about three times and then give it a shot on the starter. Don't worry if it doesn't fire up immediately, it may take a few tries. If and when it fires, let it idle and clear out any air that is still in the fuel system. It may stall a few times but keep at it (remember about the battery charger?). After it fires, resist the temptation to rev it up. Let it idle and check for any noises, knocks etc. Run it for a few minutes then shut er down.

12. If all is well, then change the oil, add some more Stanadyne additive to the fuel tank and then spend the next month chasing down all the fuel, oil and anti-freeze leaks.

Having said all that, typically, I would prefer to remove the engine and give it a quick gasket overhaul and a thorough going over before trying to free up an engine that has been sitting for that long. There is just too much in there that could have become married to its corresponding surface over the years. The above represents a "don't care if it blows up" scenario. It has worked for me in the past but it was always approached with a fair amount of trepedition (sp?). Hope it works out for you.

Bill


91 Buick Roadmaster wagon, GM 6.2 diesel conversion (gone but not forgotten
89 GMC 6.2 (Just got rid of the last pieces)
84 Mercedes 300D (gone to the great autobahn in the sky)
94 Cadillac Fleetwood (Sold before I could convert it)
 
Location: Manotick, Ontario Canada | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hello, i have just got a 80 cutluss with the 5.7 desiel.
The car got a new motor put in about 10 years ago, and
was pushed out back. When i got it, it had never been started.
I got all the rats nest off, and did the proper things to
free up and lub it. I installed and new fuel pump,that was in the trunk
for 10years. I put in 8 new injectors. I got the car
running and every thing semed to be going great. Ok my
problems is, after it warms up to about 150 deg. It
starts to miss and blows massive smoke out the left
bank. I also haved replaced fuel line and know I have no
air in the fuel system. I have about 400lbs comprestion,
and good oil psi. Does anyone have any ideas, I would so
appreciate it. I work on big cat,cummins,and detriot desiels,
but this is a bread of its own.
 
Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by GEARHEAD5.7:
Hello, i have just got a 80 cutluss with the 5.7 desiel.
The car got a new motor put in about 10 years ago, and
was pushed out back. When i got it, it had never been started.
I got all the rats nest off, and did the proper things to
free up and lub it. I installed and new fuel pump,that was in the trunk
for 10years. I put in 8 new injectors. I got the car
running and every thing semed to be going great. Ok my
problems is, after it warms up to about 150 deg. It
starts to miss and blows massive smoke out the left
bank. I also haved replaced fuel line and know I have no
air in the fuel system. I have about 400lbs comprestion,
and good oil psi. Does anyone have any ideas, I would so
appreciate it. I work on big cat,cummins,and detriot desiels,
but this is a bread of its own.


Welcome to the swamp.

Sounds to me to be head gaskets or head bolts. These engines had the first gen "torque to break" head bolts and were notorious for popping the cap off the bolts. If only a few are popped, it would hold compression when cold but once up to temp, the head section around the broken bolts starts to distort enough to lose it. Just a thought. Have seen enough of these engines with head bolts seperated at the top to suspect that this is the problem.

Bill


91 Buick Roadmaster wagon, GM 6.2 diesel conversion (gone but not forgotten
89 GMC 6.2 (Just got rid of the last pieces)
84 Mercedes 300D (gone to the great autobahn in the sky)
94 Cadillac Fleetwood (Sold before I could convert it)
 
Location: Manotick, Ontario Canada | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Thanks for the reply. That makes alot of sense.
The motor was suposed to of had all the upgrades
when it was put in. The better head bolts, ect.
I have the same comprestion cold or hot, well
when I say hot the motor has never been above
180 deg. Also, I have noticed after it runs and starts
to miss i shut it off, and i have presure on the return comeing
out of the return on the pump. Any more thoughts
 
Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do you mean the fuel pump? If you have pressure on the return, then you have found the problem. Try routing the return into a gas can and warm it up. The DB2 timing is advanced or retarded by dome pressure. If the return line is plugged it won't take long to retard the timing enough to actually kill the engine.

If you are talking about the water pump, then for sure you are looking at a blown head gasket. Should be almost no pressure at 150 degrees.

Bill


91 Buick Roadmaster wagon, GM 6.2 diesel conversion (gone but not forgotten
89 GMC 6.2 (Just got rid of the last pieces)
84 Mercedes 300D (gone to the great autobahn in the sky)
94 Cadillac Fleetwood (Sold before I could convert it)
 
Location: Manotick, Ontario Canada | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes I meant the fuel pump. I have been playing and looking
and I found standing oil in the intake. I dryed it all out,
and I ran the motor with the unper intake off. Oil started
coming in the exh. port of the intake(for the egr valve).
I am going tp take the intake off and see what I see. I am
thinking something was not installed right. (hopefully)
 
Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sorry, by the way. The return on the fuel pump
had presure, but the return line going to the
tank is free flowing. Thank you for your help.
Hopefully I can make this a good car for my
family. It is all she has to drive right now.
 
Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You seem to have two problems here:

1. You should not have any back pressure on the return line coming out of the pump. Any pressure build up here will result in the pump going into full retard. This will cause your symptoms. Make sure that the return line has no restrictions from the pump right back to the tank.

Some of these engines had an aneroid valve inline with the return. This was to advance the timing on cold start and to compensate for altitude. The later pumps incorporated this valve into the dome of the pump along with a mechanical retard arm on the passenger side of the pump. A quick check is to see if you have two electrical connections going into the top of the pump. If you have only one, then you will have the aneroid valve, downstream from the pump. This valve works in three modes. Wide open (no back pressure) for cold start or very high altitude, partially closed (about 2 PSI back pressure)for slightly lower altitudes and operational mode (3 -5 PSI back pressure) for normal operation at normal altitudes. If your car was delivered to most of the country (non-altitude compensated), you may only have the two mode valve (cold start and normal).

If in fact your pump has the two electrical connections in the dome, disregard the above. There should be absolutely no back pressure on the return. Tracking this down should be your first task.

2. Typically these engines will have a small amount of oil condensate collect in the intake. This is from the CDR valve (diesel version of a PCV)venting the crankcase. This is routed directly into the intake and the vaporized oil condenses when it hits the intake. If this oil build up is excessive, it is usually the fault of the CDR (mounted usually on the passenger side valve cover). If after changing out the CDR valve you are still getting a significant buildup then this means the engine is suffering from excessive blowby. Given the age of the engine and it's history, this would be normal. Drive it for awhile and keep track of oil useage. You might find it dropping as the engine gets it legs again.

The EGR has no access to a source of oil, only to the exhaust cross over in the intake. If you are getting oil out of the EGR then it probably is residual from the aforementioned buildup from the CDR.

Hope this helps

Bill


91 Buick Roadmaster wagon, GM 6.2 diesel conversion (gone but not forgotten
89 GMC 6.2 (Just got rid of the last pieces)
84 Mercedes 300D (gone to the great autobahn in the sky)
94 Cadillac Fleetwood (Sold before I could convert it)
 
Location: Manotick, Ontario Canada | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Well I pulled the intake off of the car. I found that the intake gaskets
are not right. Well the gaskets fit the heads but they do not
fit the intake. They would alow oil to be suck in the cylinder.
Not sure if the intake is wrong or what. Do you know if there were two
different intakes?
 
Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Yes there were two used. Before 81 they used an intake with an external EGR and 1/2 way through 81 they brought out the DX block and it had the EGR inside (under the air cleaner right in the middle of the intake manifold). The ones with the external EGR had a single stud to hold down the air cleaner while the newer ones had two.

Looks like someone replaced the heads but not the intake, or the other way around. The intake gaskets and the crossover gaskets are entirely different. Even if you had a leak there, I can't see enough oil being present up there to be sucked into the engine. The only place it could get in would be from the valley gasket or drip down from the heads but and even then there would be insufficient vacuum in the intake to draw it in. It is afterall a diesel.

Good call on the intake but still think you should look closely at the fuel return. If this engine never ran after it had the overhaul, and based on the gasket mixup, then who knows how it was plumbed after installation. Bought lots of these back in the day for cheap and the only problem was plugged return lines or air in the system. Depending on the injectors used, they could be a real bear to bleed.


Bill


91 Buick Roadmaster wagon, GM 6.2 diesel conversion (gone but not forgotten
89 GMC 6.2 (Just got rid of the last pieces)
84 Mercedes 300D (gone to the great autobahn in the sky)
94 Cadillac Fleetwood (Sold before I could convert it)
 
Location: Manotick, Ontario Canada | Registered: July 02, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you for all the good info. I have found another
car with the correct motor and intake. I am going to take the inake off
and but it on my car, and we'll see. Nothing else I will have another
motor and trans. Thank you again, and I will let you know what happens.
 
Registered: November 13, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have dreamed of getting an Oldsmobile Diesel, 88 or 98 for years. We had one as I child. I am 34-now. It was a good car, but we sold it for $300 when the transmission started to slip. It had the 5.7 L diesel, but it had been rebuilt in 1988, we got it in 1990 and sold it in 1994. I still have the hood ornanment "Diesel" off it, and plan to put it on what ever I get.

These cars are very hard to find and the very few that do come up for sale tend to be in Iowa, or around that part of the country, and tend to be total overpriced rust buckets. I did find one in Tulsa, an 83 Mint Condition, but it had never been worked on- 44K, $7,500. I didn't buy it due to the fact that I felt that if I started driving it, it would need all that stuff that they need in time. Heads-Block, injector pump, head gaskets, etc. I didn't want to pay $7,500 for a car that will need all that work. I might as well get a $1,000 car and do all that stuff to it.

I am researching all that I can on the GM 5.7 L diesel, but as you all know already, that very little information is around.

My dream would be to find a 1884 Oldsmobile 98 Brougham in mint condition with an updated injector pump, APR headstuds, and a rebuilt bottom half with a water seperator added already.

I have been looking for 2-years now and have decided that I'd be better off just buying an old Oldsmobile 98, or Caddillac Fleetwood, and trying to put a 6.2 L Diesel in it.

My question is what transmission would fit and work. I read that someone used a Chevy Astro van's transmission and the 6.2 Diesel into an 84 Buick Park Avenue Electra.

I love the sound of the 5.7, the 6.2 sounds about the same. I had considered using a Mercedes powertrain, but the sound is not the same.

My plan is to buy the car whole that I want to fix up, then buy an old, say 84 Chevy truck, and just make it work.

I am open to converting a Buick Roadmaster, or 93-96 Cadillac Fleetwood as well, but I really love the 83-84 Oldsmobile 88 and 98 Broughams.

This car would not be a daily driver. Just a hobby car. I have a 2003 Lincoln Town Car that I have thought of going diesel on it, but with all the electronics, I don't think so.
Any thoughts, or leads on to cars for sale?
Thanks for the help.
 
Location: Springdale, AR | Registered: November 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have 3 Olds diesels. A '79 Cutlass 260, an '81 Custom Cruiser and an '82 Custom Cruiser. I have been thinking about selling one of them. If one of those might appeal to you, send me a private PM.

As for the 6.2 conversion, I understand there are starter/crossmember issues when a 6.2 is put into the '77 to '96 B and C bodied cars.


And on the eigth day the LORD created the turbocharger
 
Location: Watertown, NY/Ocala, FL | Registered: August 14, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I finally got a diesel.

Read the writing below the video. I have had it since nov. 2011 and I love it.

It is the most amazing car on Earth. I can't wait for the engine to blow the head gaskets so I can
learn how to replace them.

Too bad the IP has been rebuilt. The car drives like a dream, but it could use more power. I am used to a 03 Town Car.

Enjoy the video. I am so happy with it. I love the car.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh22KLA4XaA
 
Location: Springdale, AR | Registered: November 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It has been a year and my 1981 Oldsmobile 98 Diesel is still running strong.

I am getting about 23.5 mpg with 70% HWY and 30% city.

The car always starts not matter what.

I start the car once a week and drive it to work once a month- 50-mile round trip.

I always let the car warm up for 5-min before getting it out on the road.

I can say that I am very happy with the car.

I hope the headgaskets blow soon so I can learn how to fix them.
The car already has APR head studs per the prev. owner and high quality headgaskets, so they may not fail.

I am looking at an old 1980 Delta 88 diesel with a bad transmission. It has an engine out of a 1984.
I hope to get it for parts.
 
Location: Springdale, AR | Registered: November 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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I have also found a 1986 Chevy C20 for $600 with the 6.2 Diesel.

The transmission "R" is out.

They claim it runs like a top, but the body is very ruff.

I may buy it and drop the 6.2 into a big Cadillac Fleetwood, or Oldsmobile 98 Brougham.

I want the big box body of the mid 80's.

I see big Cadillacs all day with a bad 4100 that can be had for $400.


I will just have to wait and see what I think of the engine.
I will let you all know.
 
Location: Springdale, AR | Registered: November 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Soory to post a new page for the same thing. I had to go and do something.

My plan is to drop a 6.2 Diesel out of a mid 80's Chevy truck into a big body Oldsmobile 98 or Cadillac Fleetwood with cloth seats.

I have seen 2-of these done on youtube.

I love the 5.7 Diesel, but I feel that going with a 6.2L diesel would open up the door for
more parts and durablity.

The diesel shop by my house told me that they would not even work on a 5.7 LF9 Diesel engine-no matter how much they were paid.

I love my 1981 Oldsmobile 98 Diesel, but I want to add more diesels to my driveway.
My next car will hopefully be a 1987 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham, or a 1984 Oldsmobile 98 Brougham.
I'd even do a 1984 Buick Park Avenue or Pontiac Parissiean- or how evey you spell it, as long as it was a Brougham and had pillow top cloth seats.

I would like to get some input on
Oil pan modifications if any

Engine/Trans mounts tips

Drive line cost to shorten/lengh fabrications$$

Can I buy a Chevy C20 diesel 2WD(say 1986-1987ish) and drop the whole engine and transmission into the car- if not what will I have to do about a torque converter

Radiator/cooling concerns

Glow plug wiring to ingition key

Water seperator

Adding electric fuel pump

Exhaust challanges/modifications/Cost- shoud I go dual or 3-inch single?? I want quiet exhaust- I want to hear the Diesel clatter- not the exhaust.

Extra weight on the front end of the car/changes in braking/emergeny handeling

Ultra low Sulfur Diesel fuel use in an older diesel fuel system/any concerns

Possible rear end gear modification to allow even lower RPM at higher speeds for improved mpg.
My 1981 Oldsmobile Diesel has a rear axle that helps mpg a lot per the prev owner. Power isn't that important to me, as long as the car is somewhat responsive at higher speeds.

Engine/transmission mounting issues that may lead to noise/vibration/harshness into the car's cabin.

6.2L diesel Harmonic balancer concerns

Battery concerns, will one work- or is two the only way to go? Should I put the batteries in the trunk of the car for better weight ratio?

Speedometer concerns- will it still read somewhat correct/or at all?

Will having 2-batteries in a gas car cause electrical problems once the car becomes dieslized with 2-batteries vs one?

And any other topic of concern that you guys can think of.

I plan to buy a whole running truck- so I will have all the mounting brackets for things like the alternator/ac compressor.

Special note: My state has no vehicle emissions or inspections of any type- so no concerns in this dept.

I feel I can get a good running rough bodied truck for $1000-$1500
I feel I can get the Fleetwood Brougham/or 98 Brougham for $1000- they pop up on craigslist now and then and are usually in decent shape-maybe a slipping trans or knocking engine.

Other cost
Custom drive line?
Exhaust??
Adding electric cooling fans??or keep belt driven??$$$$
Front suspension upgrades- if any needed- but I read that the 6.2 is only 150 popunds heavier than a 350gas.

Thanks for your input.
Any talk/input would be of great interest and help.
What do you think my MPG would be?
Preformance?
Durability?
Cabin noise?
 
Location: Springdale, AR | Registered: November 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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