Homestead I looked at your burner and I am afraid I have to agree with the other Aussie about the compressor. What would happen if the compressor failed, would burning oil leak out or would it self extinguish the same story with the fan, would the fuel shut off etc.
The reason they have safety regs with stuff like this is to ensure that a partial failure does not cause a fire. Burners have to be FailSafe.

A friend of mine was nearly killed when he started up a diesel fueled boiler that had been leaking fuel into the firebox. When the fuel got hot it exploded and blew the boiler off the flight deck and into the harbor, had to get another boiler.

Sorry about your friend. Every heating system can be abused and operated in a dangerous manner. Most people are particularly cautious or use the services of a licensed oil technician if they are uncomfortable with the way their heating system works.

Yellow Heat Systems are as safe as or even more dedicated to safety as any other waste oil furnace manufacturer. In addition to all of the contemporary standards for safety systems, such as a fire-eye control, lock-out/time-out control, firematic valve, and flare fitting metal tube connection, we have introduced several innovations of our own. Our furnace is double walled construction throughout. This greatly reduces the threat of radiant overheating of adjacent stored materials. We use a two-speed industrial rated circulation fan, also controlled by the lock-out/time-out control. Unlike several domestic manufacturers, our furnace is made to water tight standards so that it cannot drip from the rear. Our elevated burner is safer to operate in garages where gasoline vapors may hug the floor level.

The compressor is not associated with the fuel system, so no compressor problem could cause a fuel leak. See my website www.YellowHeat.com for an explanation of how a Babington Burner works. We are now selling our system with a higher grade of compressor than shown on the pictures you may have seen. This is now a 40 psi regulated compressor and comes with a full two year warranty, an industry leading service to our customers.

I am sure Yellow Heat Furnace is the best value in waste oil furnaces anywhere. Ours is the ONLY heating system that operates well on unfiltered and unheated waste vegetable oil. Available as a stand alone furnace, or as a retrofit if you already have a furnace or boiler, Yellow Heat Systems breaks new ground in sustainable heating systems. Be sure to download the Operations Manual at www.YellowHeat.com/yellow_heat_tech

Tom Leue
Homestead Inc.

quote:

Originally posted by sinbad:
Homestead I looked at your burner and I am afraid I have to agree with the other Aussie about the compressor. What would happen if the compressor failed, would burning oil leak out or would it self extinguish the same story with the fan, would the fuel shut off etc.
The reason they have safety regs with stuff like this is to ensure that a partial failure does not cause a fire. Burners have to be FailSafe.

A friend of mine was nearly killed when he started up a diesel fueled boiler that had been leaking fuel into the firebox. When the fuel got hot it exploded and blew the boiler off the flight deck and into the harbor, had to get another boiler.

It appears to have an off the shelf ignition control module with cad eye, when heat is called for the module turns on the igniters, fuel valves and blowers when the cad eye sees flame it turns the igniters off, if the flame goes out the cad eye sees this condition and the module shuts off all valves and blowers, this new technology is basically a modified Beckett burner, there are a couple simple modifications that would make it burn quite a bit cleaner without having to rely on a hot combustion chamber to take care of unburned oil that is blown out of the flame tube into the combustion chamber.

quote:

It appears to have an off the shelf ignition control module with cad eye, when heat is called for the module turns on the igniters, fuel valves and blowers when the cad eye sees flame it turns the igniters off, if the flame goes out the cad eye sees this condition and the module shuts off all valves and blowers,

Thanks fabricator, that takes care of my safety concerns.

If you read through their advertising hype and spieil, (The document they refer to as the " Operators/ owners Manual) you will see a notation that the burner is not to be operated unattended. I have built several very powerful and clean burning setups for way less than $50 out of junk I have at home.

If a burner can't be left unattended, I would argue the need for safety features is minimal as the safety mechanism is the operator themselves watching over the burner and any device the machine does have, must be very limited in the protection it offers if the manufacturer is not confident the machine can safely be operated on it's own.

I also see a lot of things in the Manual that are very contradictory of many of the clams made for the burner especially the bit about operating on unfiltered oil. When someone says something operates on unfiltered oil, the mental image this conjures up (Misleadingly but no doubt purposefully) is that you just pour WVO into the tank and that's it.

WRONG!

Either the oil has to meet yellow grease standards of less than 1% particulates or the oil is to be settled and poured through a strainer the manufacturer sells. The difference between filtered and strained in this case would only be advertising based semantics. The fact is it won't burn oil that has not been pre treated in some way which is not the impression the claims made for the product create.

I would really like to see proof of the claim:

"Here is the ONLY waste vegetable oil burner that easily burns unfiltered and unheated vegetable oil, straight out of the fryolator."

In the few years and 30,000L+ of veg oil I have collected, that particular fryolator they refer to would be an undoubted one off to be so clean as to allow that claim to be true (and not completely spin doctored)and that a burner could operate reliably on fuel that was drawn straight from it.

You can also call a couple of barrels a "Furnace" and "heat exchanger" which may be their function in this application, but it doesn't change the fact the are a common garden variety steel barrel. Sounds impressive till you see what it is they are actually referring to.

I would strongly encourage anyone thinking about one of these units to very carefully ready the "Owners manual" as it is called very carefully and understand exactly what the limitations and real requirements of this setup is before laying down the substantial amount of money for what it appears you actually get.

The most questionable thing to me is the "New" technology thing, there are a a lot of members on this board who have been using babington burners for years, I have been using a system similar to but better than and simpler than babington or beckett for two years. If this thing does not burn perfectly clean right out of the burner tube with nothing but hot air smell and no unburned oil it is not quite there yet.
1500 bux for 100 bux worth of off the shelf parts and a few hours of labor is bordering on a rip off.

quote:

1500 bux for 100 bux worth of off the shelf parts and a few hours of labor is bordering on a rip off.

I couldn't agree more.
This quite obviously is not a product manufactured to a standard one would expect of a retail or industrial appliance or piece of equipment. It is merely a bunch of parts screwed to a board to hold them together in a back shed to allow them to be flogged for another purpose.

The marketing of the furnace and HE as being recycled also doesn't hide the fact these parts are not designed or suited for the purpose of which they are being sold and the price they are being sold for is grossly inflated for the manufacturing and R&D cost that goes into them which is completely minimal.

Combine this with the claims of the unit being able to burn oil straight from the fryer being Highly suspect, this product presents as a lot less than a reassuring investment of one's money.

This is great. After months of posting I was worried that this technology would be completely ignored. Sounds like a few critics, but its better than no response.

As for the oil operation, one can and I do just pour the oil in and push the button and go. I think there is a big difference between a coarse strainer included with each furnace and filtering, which is a separate operation requiring separate equipment. I know of no other commercial furnace with can operate on the yellow grease spec, which is 1% particulate matter and 1% water. This spec is easily achieved right out of the waste oil container.

The steel drums are in fact an excellent heat exchange method. The gauge of steel is as good as most other steel furnace manufactures. The fact that the steel is recycled is actually better in terms of the world impact and the quality of the seams and edges. With 7 heat exchanger tubes, our system delivers more heat than many other commercial systems. Sorry you are enamored of some heating systems costing thousands of dollars more, but they are not any better than Yellow Heat.

As for Unattended Operation, I am recommending a brief daily brushing of the electrodes because most vegetable oil has a lot of particulate matter in it, and some carbon residue does build up in time. If I set the operation intensity low and the thermostat does not shut the unit off, it will run unattended for days. Perhaps you are thinking this unit is a substitute for your house unit, where your heating system involvement is very limited. Not so, this is a commercial or industrial burner meant for producing clean and low cost heat for commercial purposes.

The Yellow Heat System is by far the lowest cost power burner and waste oil furnace on the market. It is several thousands of dollars below the next cheapest unit. The price is a good value.

Tom Leue

my unit is like toms, ran for 3 days no problems, open door and cleaned electodes, took 10 seconds, closed door and fired it back up, I srain my oil, if you did not it could plug up oil pump, this thing works better on wvo, then my lenair on wmo, and I do not have to babysit it,

quote:

Originally posted by Homestead Inc.:
This is great. After months of posting I was worried that this technology would be completely ignored. Sounds like a few critics, but its better than no response.

Technology??? Geez you like to talk things UP! I read posts like your and the first thing i think of is " If these guys have such a golden tounge and ability to spin doctor things, Why are they trying to hock such questionable products instead of applying their talents to something worthwhile??"
Dont be fooled into thinking that negative response is better than none. That Wives tail was Debunked by marketing researchers many years ago.

quote:

I think there is a big difference between a coarse strainer included with each furnace and filtering, which is a separate operation requiring separate equipment.

But you actually sell seperate filtering equipment for this very purpose and as much as admit it in your advertising/ Owners manual that there isn't much wvo out there that will pass the required standards. You are trying to make an exception sound like the norm which is misleading and deceptive.

quote:

I know of no other commercial furnace with can operate on the yellow grease spec, which is 1% particulate matter and 1% water.

I don't know of one either but then again I have never researched it. Just because I don't know, ( especially if I don't want to know) dosen't mean there isn't a bunch of units out there that will do this.

quote:

This spec is easily achieved right out of the waste oil container.

I have my deep resevations about this. Maybe in exceptional and highly infrequent circumstances but again, as the norm, I highly doubt it. The fact you have a strainer included in your kit as well as offer a seperate filtration system would seem to support my significant doubts.
You also said below and I Quote: " because most vegetable oil has a lot of particulate matter in it,". By this you are without any doubt agreeing that the MAJORITY of Veg oil has what I believe most people would take to be much more than 1% particulates in it because no one I know would consider 1% to be a lot. Your statement seems to refute your claim that 1% particulates and 1% water can be easily found in grease barrels. I would say it can possibly found in rare and exceptional circumstances but a person should not expect to find more oil than not of this standard.

quote:

The gauge of steel is as good as most other steel furnace manufactures.

I doubt this too but even if it were true, it is unlikely the steel is of the same quality or in any way designed to withstand the forces involved in containing a flame. I notice you are careful to make note of the gauge but not quality or longevity. The drums I use for my burners degrade very quickly so I have little faith in its longevity in this application. As the burner/ heat exchanger sells for $1000, I'd be looking for something more than a recycled steel drum for my money.

quote:

Sorry you are enamored of some heating systems costing thousands of dollars more, but they are not any better than Yellow Heat.

No, I'm not infatuated with other heating systems and find your Spin doctoring in trying to make out I am a very poor attempt at trying to justify the shortcomings of your product. From the little have seen of other heating systems, While they may cost more their quality, construction and above all safety features are leagues ahead of your system.
I can buy cars for a few hundred dollars which is thousands cheaper than what paid for mine but that dosen't mean they are better because they cost less or i want to trust my safety or that of my family to them.

quote:

Perhaps you are thinking this unit is a substitute for your house unit, where your heating system involvement is very limited. Not so, this is a commercial or industrial burner meant for producing clean and low cost heat for commercial purposes.

I am under no misapprehention as to what this unit is and I would put it to you that it's greatest potential lies outside its function as a WVO fueled heater. Even as an industrial unit, there are a number of requirements for the safety of its operation and longevity of service. I would strongly suggest anyone looking at this furnace cosnult their insurance company to see if they will cover their workshop and contents with one of these units installed.

quote:

The Yellow Heat System is by far the lowest cost power burner and waste oil furnace on the market. It is several thousands of dollars below the next cheapest unit. The price is a good value.

Just because it is cheap does not mean by any stretch it is good value and from what I can see, It is a anything BUT good value!
A comprable system could be made very easily and incomparably cheaper while still employing the same components you use. There is no doubt the markup you are making on these units is huge and the price is not in any way a reflection of the quality of what one would be getting for that money.

I believe a person would be far better off making their own heater, buying a used known commercial brand heater or putting the extra toward something that will offer far greater safety, longevity and relaibility than this cobbled together contraption.

Your Heater is not totally without merit however I would suggest trying to talk it up and make out it is something it clearly is not will be far more effective in undermining the way people regard the product and do nothing to enhance your own credibility or the faith people put in what you say.

Thank you for the rather lengthy reply.
I must take exception with some of your claims.
There are no safety systems on other commercial unit that are lacking on the Yellow Heat Systems. Included here are several features that are superior, as I have listed.

Your representation of the cost of production is unrealistic. A compressor, oil pump, controller, ignitor, electrodes, blower, steel and labor are not purchasable for "$100". There are 10 years of research and development. Yellow Heat Systems can handle waste oils that the other systems on the market cannot. It is a good value.

The oil cleaning system is built into every system I sell. It is available for separate purchase, but no separate operation is required for Yellow Heat to operate. No other system can operate for long on WVO that is not filtered. This Straining Bucket and Drum Funnel are unique offerings, and are useful to other working with WVO. So I sell them separately if desired. They too are an exceptional value.

Perhaps you could share your experience and qualifications to make a judgement on this technology.

I am a licensed oil burner technician with 10 years of development of this system. I have been a commercial biodiesel producer and now am one of the largest distributors of B100 in the country. I am a self employed engineer. I don't make claims that I cannot support.

Tom Leue

quote:

Originally posted by Homestead Inc.:

Perhaps you could share your experience and qualifications to make a judgement on this technology.

I am a licensed oil burner technician with 10 years of development of this system. I have been a commercial biodiesel producer and now am one of the largest distributors of B100 in the country. I am a self employed engineer. I don't make claims that I cannot support.

I have no qualifications on this "Technology" and I'd be pretty sure you aren't qualified either specifically on Babbington Burners which is the " technology " these burners employ. I have built a few of the things though and helped others improve the efficiency of their designs with them. I ( and others here) have also spotted the shortcomings in your design which you seem to want to cover up with your hype about the value of these things.

I can only say that if you are a licensed Oil burner technician and it took you 10 years to work out how to screw that bunch of parts together, I am quite astounded given that the " technology " as you so like to talk it up, is all over the net and Youtube and has been replicated by a great many backyarders whom also have no qualifications in Babbington Burners due to the principals extreme simplicity. Somehow though, all these other non qualified people manage to make these things work as well.

I would have thought as one of the largest Bio distributors in the country you would have been plenty busy enough with that and not needed to be trying to flog these things nor need yet another job on top of those 2 as an engineer. As far as your claims, I think you have already shot yourself in the foot with your own comments and actions and these would be very obvious to most readers of this thread.

Is your oil cleaning system self cleaning? If not, then I see little practical difference between cleaning the oil in the first place and the inevitable time and labor sent in cleaning the cleaning system.
Most if not all oil burners have a filter in the system so if you are basing your claims of fryolator to the furnace on the fact your setup has an inbuilt cleaning process and are relying on that to base your claim, then every other manufacturer would be able to do the same.

You say that oil with a 1% particulate and 1% water level can easily be achieved right out of the waste oil drum. Can you tell me as to what your research determined the percentage of WVO on average meets this standard? My experience ( although I have no qualifications in this area) leads me to believe that there would probably less that 1 in 1000 WVO drums that had oil this clean but I am happy to be proven wrong and would certainly be interested in what information you can provide to back this claim up.

quote:

This Straining Bucket and Drum Funnel are unique offerings, and are useful to other working with WVO. So I sell them separately if desired. They too are an exceptional value.

I take it you are refering to the cut down recycled plastic Bucket with a gauze over the end and this old gas bottle cut in half as being " an exceptional Value" ???



I would say this is a highly subjective claim but they certainly aren't items that strike me as being " exceptional Value" given what they are. Others may be inclined to think different.

You can take heart though that I am not a potential customer so what I think does not matter. If others see even some of the anomaly's in your product and claims I do ,then I don't think you are going to find these things to be sold in any worthwhile numbers.

Here is one of my qualifications.



And here is a grease fired process boiler.



And here is am oil atomizer that puts babington to shame in simplicity and performance, and ease of manufacture.





It is the atomizer used here, no pumps, just 10psi compressed air.

Fab,

can you give us more detailed info/pics on the oil atomiser please bud?

I don't have any more detailed than that, think of a playground slide, oil runs onto the top and slides down past the atomizer, all that is, is a piece of 3/8 aluminum rod with 3/8 fine thread turned on it, it has a through hole drilled and tapped to accept the small brass push lock air fitting. the last 1/16 inch opposite the air fitting is drilled through with a .010 hole, the rod threads into the coupling looking thing on the slide, the threads allow it to be turned in or out to make the pool of oil in the slide deeper or shallower, this gives a lot of flame adjustment, the atomizer must blow into a flame tube or it will not ignite, unused oil runs out the end of the slide and is pumped back into the main tank, this burner is very efficient and very stingy on oil useage, it burns best with a diffuser plate on the end of the flame tube, it turns red hot and ant unburnt oil being thrown out hits this plate and is immediately burned.

I have thought of a similar thing for some time and don't see any need for a ball to make this type of " technology " work at all.

My idea is of a pool of oil in a vessel that simply has an amount of oil entering it and the level is controlled by an opening in the side of the vessel that allows run off when the oil level reaches a certain height, just like a weir. The air or spray would be created the same as your setup with a threaded and adjustable height air jet coming up from the bottom and reaching near the surface of the oil pool.

The mixture and amount of fuel could be controlled by both air pressure and the height of the air jet. The oil would not need to be run over any metal surface, it would be sprayed from the surface of the oil pool and atomized that way which would make construction very easy and compact.
If the burner were constructed in a T like fashion and secondary low pressure air admitted from the side or above the oil spray, further atomization could be achieved and the amount of compressed air and pressure could be reduced.

I have also drawn up a design for a burner which will work on forced ( rather than compressed) air and be of a gun style which will allow it to work with a number of applications. It will work similar to another burner I built which vaporizes the oil after a preheat but is self cleaning of the residue and ash that WVO combustion leaves.
Basically after a short preheat on Propane, the oil will hit a heated plate and be vapourised and burn in a primary and then secondary chamber. The design allows for an excess of air at all times which will ensure clean burning and regulation of gas temperature whilst retaining enough heat for the vaporization burning process to self sustain.

I just need to find a piece of suitable size pipe for the housing I want to use and I'll be ready to give it a go. The construction will be dead simple and the only equipment required for its function will be a supply of forced air such as that from a Vacuum cleaner or centrifugal blower.

Homestead,

I saw your ad in the Biodiesel Smarter magazine and I must say the first thing that jumped out at me was that the wiring is atrocious!
I sure hope your finished product is at least done to code. Your or your cutomer would be facing some serious fines if you tried to sell that thing up here in Canada in the state that it's in in your ad.

How many hours of run time can be expected before the first maintenance?
Any idea what kind of BTU's your getting out of her?
Jon

the only thing I see is it could use sparkplug boots on the electodes

I've been working on a grease burner concept for almost 10 years now. I believe it to be fully functional, cost-effective, practical, and above all else, SAFE. The problem I have is that it still is a work in progress. I am the inventor, developer, builder and marketer all-in-one. As such, it is always a game of catchup. The Yellow Heat Burner pictured in the Biodiesel Smarter Magazine is one of the operating units in my shop. As such, it has an extension cord and a thermostat wire showing. Some of the surfaces are not painted, and the unit has been operating for over 1000 hours. Its not brand new.

The Yellow Heat Burner that I sell is a heating system that complies with all codes I can find: it has only UL listed components, all connections are in regulation steel boxes, or are NEMA twist-lock disconnects. There are no exposed components of the ignitors, the unit is high-temp flat black, etc. The Straining Bucket/Drum Funnel shown above is indeed off my website (http://www.yellowheat.com/catalog). However, the unit I sell is painted and of commercial grade. I sell many of them at Utah Biodiesel (http://www.utahbiodieselsupply.com/drumfunnel.php) and everyone has found them to be satisfactory and a good bargain. The price is the same at Utah Biodiesel or at my website.

Like usual, having only a dial-up connection is among my several handicaps for competent internet managing. It may be too late to impress anyone on this site with Yellow Heat, but no one else can offer anything like it, and at a price that can't be beat. I will be trying other avenues to get the word out about this unique heating system that is practical for operations that want low cost, effective, safe and environmentally responsible heating systems.

Tom Leue

Well, you wanted interest in your product and now you got it although you don't seem as cocky and clever as before. You also haven't backed up any of the claims you have made or questions put to you other than to recite your "Cheap as chips Burner on the market" Line ( which I doubt would surprise anyone!) I am sorry you obviously are upset about the feedback you have received ( and went to pains to create) but had you exercised a little more Humility and a lot less Bull Chit in your promotion of the product, as I warned, you would not have created expectation that the product could not fill despite how much you have tried to talk it up.

When I see claims like this" Yellow Heat Burner cleanly, smokelessly, efficiently burns RVO, waste motor oil, and #2 oil."
AND,
" It is smokeless and clean burning. No visible emissions."

Which would be OK, except I then find Pictures of the burner like this:

Which is FAR from a clean burning efficient flame that even an " unqualified " person like I can see.

It also creates a Question of credibility when you state on the 20th of Jan this year:
"Homestead Inc. has been working for over 8 years to get this system right" but then on the 22 of October you State: "I am a licensed oil burner technician with 10 years of development of this system."
From these claims it would appear you were able to cram 2 years worth of experience into a mere 9 months! We have another regular contributor on this forum that has an accelerated experience time machine and has an exponential experience curve but with this ability you really should forget about these Burners. Your " technology " of accelerated R&D and experience time is worth billions to big industry and could make you a very wealthy man indeed!

While you have called my comments harsh, put your emotion aside long enough to learn a few things here. I'm not even interested in your product. You should see how I ( and I'm sure many other people) look at product details before I lay down my heard earned.
You have created an impression of your product it can't live up to and you have made claims that also can't be substantiated or are at very least an embellishment of the truth.

While I doubt you would ever admit it here, but it is my feeling you have sold very few of these burners or are ever likely to. IMHO, your over hyped promotion, the appearance and construction of the product and certainly the price are going to appeal to very few people. The fact of the matter is that people here tend to be more of DIY type and your burner simply is not advanced enough ( despite how much you want to hype the well known "technology") and it is too easy to build a burner that would do the same job for an absolute fraction of the cost of your unit.

You try to elevate your product by trying to undermine my comments by questioning my " qualifications" which you yourself don't have but the fact of the matter is I have Built 2 burners that achieve cleaner burning, far higher heat and with a lot less equipment and cost than your produce and am working on a 3rd that I expect will have all the benefits of the first 2 combined and more. There are Safety features that could be incorporated into my burners that they don't have but for my use I have no need for them and if I did, I could easily buy the off the shelf units as you have and fit them. You have not developed any technology that was not already known or available. All you have done is screw together some parts and others can do that too.

The point is that it doesn't take 10 years to work out how to make a WVO burner or cost anything like what you are charging for people to build one themselves. I have no doubt that that you will make a few sales to the people with 2 thumbs on each hand but that is in no way going to justify the advertising and marketing expenses and effort that will be required to move them.

I sincerely Suggest it is time to take a reality check of your product and what your doing and have a re-evaluation of it. Clearly, aside from anything else, you are looking at this as another income stream but I think it is going to take a lot to make this a profitable product.
It is more than likely you would do a lot better just concentrating on your Bio diesel business and the same amount of time and effort you are investing in Yellow heat would have a lot better returns if just invested in what you are doing with your Bio interests.