LOOKS BETTER THAN VEG OIL

Are you thinking of wood gas producers? I'm thinking of building one using the destructive disitillation method so I can run ordinary natural gas appliances with it. I hear you can make methanol from wood with this method. Anyone have experience or a good design?

Anyone seen plans/instructions for woodgas that can be substituted for propane/natural gas in appliances? I've read that the usual design using partial combustion is not suitable indoors due to poisonous gases, whereas the "destructive distillation" method that keeps ALL air out of the wood chamber WILL work for indoor appliances. So far, I haven't found such plans or instructions. Anyone?

Trev, I'm not sure if what you refer to is the same as something I posted about recently in this section, i.e. Renewable energy other than biodiesel > Methane Digester > go to my last post.

If this is what you're looking for, you might want to follow the link I posted and try contacting the manager of the Ecos centre in Northern Ireland. If you don't have any joy there, e-mail me and I'll try to get him to send you some information directly.

Good luck

I HAVE SOME COMPREHENSIVE PLANS AND IMFO ON TWO OF THESE DEVICES AND TESTS CONDUCTED ON TRUCKS BEFORE WW2.I AM LOATHE TO MENTION THEM ON THIS SITE,AS THERE ARE A FEW WHO DO NOT LIKE CAPS,AND A FEW TOTAL WANKERS!
BASICALLY 1,000 MILES OF RUGGED TERAIN ON 660 UK POUNDS OF CHARCOAL. INSTALLED IN ONE TON TRUCKS,SIDE VALVE ENGINES,NOT AS EFFICIENT AS MODERN KIT.I HAVE FINISHED BUILDING AN SVO VW 1600 INDUCTION GENNY,WITH A SVO FUEL FILTER THAT SOLVES ALL THE PROBLEMS.BUT BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE IDEA STEALING LOVELY FOLKS AROUND,I AM NOT PREPAIRED TO IMPART THE IMFO ON THIS SITE OR ANY OTHER!
THE WOOD GAS PRODUCER IS SIMPLE TO CONSTRUCT/EASY TO FILTER THE FILTHY GAS,AND TOTALLY SUITED TO ANYONE WITH AN ABUNDANT SUPPLY OF WASTE WOOD SAWDUST.MY NEXT PROJECT IS A 1,000 WATT INDUCTION GENNY.THE INDUCTION GENNY IS VERY INTERESTING IN ITSELF.

I'm glad to see that you do have an interest in things being discussed on this board but you must admit that some of your posts have been a bit obscure and sometimes offensive.

Where did you source you wood gas plans? i've not found any that contain any practical details.

It would be nice if you wanted to share your info as this is a "discussion" board.

Simon
www.veggiepower.org.uk

Thanks AndyMC - it's close but I not quite what I was looking for, I think. Since the most well known method of making wood gas for vehicles involves carbon monoxide, it can't (or shouldn't?) be used in making woodgas for indoor appliances such as converting gas stoves or water heaters. The most common method allows some air to combust some of the wood to get the heat to drive the gas from the rest of the wood.

The method I'm looking for involves no air to drive the woodgas out, only heat.

Simon UK, there are at least two woodgas plans on the Net that I know of with very detailed instructions. Try this one: www.gengas.nu

[This message was edited by Trev from Canada on 02 September 2001 at 02:35 PM.]

I've read an article by mother earth news about generating wood gas and I hope to try it out soon. The process seems simple but I haven't tried yet so I can't speek from experience. First you take a sealable canister like a 55 gal. drum and fill it with wood. Put an outlet pipe of some sort in it. Then apply heat to the canister, i.e. put it into a bon fire (not very economoical). The gas should move out under it's own pressure from the heat. then the gas needs run through some filters to clean out ash and other junk. Then the gas is cooled and used, or stored for later use. E-mail me if you want to know more.

I forgot to mention how to make methanol from this. Instead of filtering the gas then storing/using it, you run it through a catalyst such as a catalytic converter from a car or about 20 feet of copper tubbing. After the gas is catalyzed into methanol it will need distilled further to remove excess water and other crud. Needless to say be careful because both the methyl gas and the methanol are poisonous

Thanks, that's the method I was looking for, since apparently that way of heating the wood without oxygen makes a woodgas that is not poisonous (ie it doesn't contain carbon monoxide) and so can be used in natural gas appliances. However, the Mother Earth method looks somewhat crude, so I am looking for a more efficient and convenient setup, for instance something that uses wood chips. Anybody know of such a setup?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Grimm:
I forgot to mention how to make methanol from this. Instead of filtering the gas then storing/using it, you run it through a catalyst such as a catalytic converter from a car or about 20 feet of copper tubbing. After the gas is catalyzed into methanol it will need distilled further to remove excess water and other crud. Needless to say be careful because both the methyl gas and the methanol are poisonous

---

At last! The hillbilly hooch technique!

THREEPHASE INDUCTION MOTORS ARE WELL WORTH LOOKING AT FOR GENNYS.TRUST JOBOLLOX. HAPPY WHAT EVER IS NEEDED AT THESE STRANGE DAYS.

I realize this isn't feasible for everyone, but there are probably books on the subject at your local library. If you have a college or university that teaches any engineering, so much the better.

I remember a nice book at my Univ library that had several designs in it. I am not sure want to drive 180 miles (300 km) to go read it again.

Dualfuel, try a supersaturated solution of rock salt or Ca2Cl. Enough might keep it from freezing without using something else that would evaporate out (like ethylene glycol). If you think it wouldn't catch fire you could mix in some of your leftover glycerine, but on the other hand you may be making a bomb. No matter what you use, it will probably slowly evaporate, so you might want to include a sight glass and refill port.

I also seem to remember the Scandinavians used producer gas to run a lot of their engines during WWII, spark and diesel ignition.

The length of a short circuit is twice the distance from the middle to the end

[This message was edited by WVengineer on 11 December 2002 at 02:01 PM.]

I read on this discussion site that glycerol makes a great anti freeze.

So, why not neutralise some biodiesel byproduct soap with acid and wash out the crude glycerol with water.

I dont know the concentration you'll need but glycerol certainly wont evaporate as easily as ethylene glycol.

One of the latest Land Rover publications (March 2003 Land Rover World) has an article on a Swiss Rover converted to run on producer gas, using a kit left over from WW-II. Good photos and descriptions, as well as interesting comments regarding the operating advantages, performance and problems. Range was 80km using 40kg of oak or beech, cut into 1-inch cubes. Enough gas was produced within 5 minutes of ignition to move off. Gas production was not constant - it started slow, peaked, then dropped off slow again. Only low-range was useful, for top speed of about 25mph. The converter weighs 340kg. The engine had to have carbon cleaned out "annually" (head removal required), but the article doesn't mention how far it could drive between de-carbs. The vehicle has ony travelled 9000km since it was converted in 1968. Nevertheless it works and illustrates exactly what we're talking about. I can probably scan the photos/article for anyone who can't get a copy of the magazine.
Cheers,
JohnO
Cheers,
JohnO

[This message was edited by johno on 02 April 2003 at 10:22 AM.]

We dont burn coal in cars and converting coal to oil or gas is wasteful (apart from being dirty).

Maybe wood is better used to fuel static rather than mobile plants. As the producer gas plants are so bulky, why don't we use them as heat and power generators? They might simply be unsuitable as vehicle energy sources.

UK had a commercial scale power plant that would burn coppice timber. To be as efficient as possible, it used a fluid bed gas generator to give a combined cycle gas and steam turbine system. Sadly the technology was not fully worked out so suffered operational problems.

They tried to do too much at once - a great shame. If they had gone for simpler plant with less thermal efficiency they could have proven the concept and later gone on to more effcicent plant.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave UK:

UK had a commercial scale power plant that would burn coppice timber. To be as efficient as possible, it used a fluid bed gas generator to give a combined cycle gas and steam turbine system. Sadly the technology was not fully worked out so suffered operational problems.

They tried to do too much at once - a great shame. If they had gone for simpler plant with less thermal efficiency they could have proven the concept and later gone on to more effcicent plant.

---

coppiced mallee trees used as power station fuel not yet in operation, but definitely under construction.

30 000 KM in a '90 Mazda 2 litre diesel on SVO with biodiesel start/purge.

I have failed to see the usefulness of this subject.

You can make wood gas and run old gasoline combustion engines with carburetors. You have to remove the carburetor, and it is finiky. I would like to caution people who think they can run natural gas appliances, GOOD LUCK.

First, are you going to remove the impurities? Do you really want to play around with acetone and other poisonous volatiles? How are you going to presurize this venture.

It seems that some are just those that want to save a buck, no matter how eccentric and crazy the ideas are. Wood gas, for example is not an environmental movement. Remember bio-diesel is replaced on a yearly basis, verses tree growing that at best is a 20 year investment, and I question the validity to the ecosystem of cutting down mixed variety forests and replacing with one species in a specified area.

Come on, let it go.

Doug, weren't you the person who kept insisting he was buying the "VERY BEST" quality Methanol (sometimes called methyl hydrate) because it was really Wood Alcohol made from REAL WOOD?

Sounds like the old "What's good for the goose is not good for the gander" to me.

Tilly SBC/IBA

[This message was edited by Tilly on 08 April 2003 at 10:44 AM.]

Ah, Tilly is converting his name to Achilles and last name heel.

First of all, as I have pointed out, mere mortals such as ourselves who do not have access to fancy fisher/tropshe equipment will not be able to make methanol from methane. This thread is exploring the usefulness of using wood gas as if it is natural gas. Good luck poisoning themselves.

Yes the British term methyl hydrate use to describe methanol from wood, usually through the pulp and paper process, where you also get acetone. Wood pyrolysis is not wood alcohol as the methane cannot be liquified without steam reforming.

Second, yes, 99.9% methyl hydrate/methanol is the very best, I do not believe the people that are paying for the lab grade fee. If you look at Canada's economy, it is heavy into pulp and paper, methanol is about 16% of the black liquor stream, some just burn it, some separate it for the paint market. Interestingly enough, that is where you will find methyl hydrate, not in the automotive department.

Thank you for challenging me on this topic, as others will get a chance to read that METHANE, CH4 and METHANOL CH3OH requires reforming to remove a hydrogen and replace with a hydroxyl radical giving it liquid form at room temperature.

Also, if one wants to use METHANE from a digester they must remove the hydrogen sulfide or it is not marketable.

"When it sounds too good to be simple and true, it probably is " Said the Goose to the gander.