Hello Guys,

I have been looking around for a while now, and have finally decided to take the plunge.

I have been researching online regarding using Alternator power to electrolyze water into Hydrogen and Oxygen Gas, and inject the combo into the engine through the Air Intake.

Building such a system yourself is easier than building a do-it yourself two-tank SVO conversion, but I'm a crappy engineer, so I've decided to purchase a kit.

There are three reputable companies to order from.

CHEC HFI is a high end Heavy duty truck Hydrogen booster system that retails for about $4000 and guarantees 10% improvement. Must be installed by a certified installer. A little too rich for my blood.

Hydrogen Garage has a system about half the cost that claims as much as 50% fuel economy gains.

Lastly Mileage-Maker has a system ranging from subcompact car models for $250 to Commercial truck models for $800+ that says 20-30% gains are normal.

In terms of the appearance of the kits, CHEC HFI is a very nicely machined setup that puts me in mind of Frybrid, but there customer service is about equal from the times I've attempted contact.

Hydrogen Garage's system looks about the technological equivalent to Grease Car, and hasn't returned my emails.

Mileage Maker's system is Modular and seems about the quality of Plantdrive, with attentive customer service. They have answered all my questions very thoroughly, and offered to walk me through the installation process.

Therefore, I have decided to Purchase a Mileage-Maker Quadpak Hydrogen Boost system for my F-250. I will be placing the order next week when my Army Reserve paycheck comes in, and expect to receive the unit around March 14th. I'll let you know what kind of Fuel economy improvements I notice.

Here are the websites I've been visiting

www.hydropowercar.com - a hydrogen power forum.
www.chechfi.ca/sohfitech.htm
www.hydrogengarage.com/
www.mileagemaker.us

-Jack

Do you have access to a dyno, preferably with enough instrumentation to tell what's really happening when you do a test run? Also, do you have a means to accurately measure your net fuel flow? You would also benefit having an accurate wattmeter (amps & volts) to keep track of the energy drawn by the alternator. Some of the conversions I've read about essentially used the stored energy in the battery to boost the engine power, making the hydrogen generator appear to do the marvelous things claimed, until the battery went dead.

I'll be very interested in hearing your results. I'm sceptical, but the concept has not been totally debunked yet, so there's still room for a success story. You might be the first, and that would really be something worth the experiment.
Cheers,
JohnO

quote:

Originally posted by johno:
Do you have access to a dyno, preferably with enough instrumentation to tell what's really happening when you do a test run?

Yes. There are three local diesel truck shops all with Dyno's. One of them is only a mile from my house.

quote:

Also, do you have a means to accurately measure your net fuel flow?

I'll be measuring fuel use the same way I always do. Dividing the Miles I've driven by the gallons of fuel needed to fill the tank to the level I filled it before. Right now I'm getting 18.5 mpg on Diesel, 17.5 on Biodiesel, and 15 on WVO.

quote:

You would also benefit having an accurate wattmeter (amps & volts) to keep track of the energy drawn by the alternator. Some of the conversions I've read about essentially used the stored energy in the battery to boost the engine power, making the hydrogen generator appear to do the marvelous things claimed, until the battery went dead.

The installation instructions posted online are pretty easy to follow. I'll be running the wires through my ignition switch with an inline 20amp fuse. The Quadpak is supposed to draw 12amps under normal operation, and 18amps at startup according to conversations I've had with the kit designer. 20amps is nowhere near enough to drain my truck's electrical system which was beefed up by the previous owners to run all the electrical for a 5th wheel RV.

quote:

I'll be very interested in hearing your results. I'm sceptical, but the concept has not been totally debunked yet, so there's still room for a success story. You might be the first, and that would really be something worth the experiment.
Cheers,
JohnO

I definitely wouldn't be the first. This thread is about a guy who designed his own homemade Hydrogen system and had it working last spring. He is not one of the kit makers.

http://www.hydropowercar.com/forum_viewtopic.php?9.167

A lot of other people are skeptical about VO in a diesel too. Isn't it funny how so many alternative fuel pioneers refuse to believe that any other option is viable but their own? I would love to have a Hydrogen Boosted, Vegetable Oil Hybrid Electric Diesel with Built in Solar Panels on the roof.

Icymudpuppy -

How did your conversion of your F250 come out? Do you have any results to share with us? I have talked to a guy here in Texas that did the hydrogen from H2O conversion and he received 20-30% increase on average with his suburban. Before taking the plundge ($$$) I would like to kow more about such systems and their possible performance.

78bosoxr1

I won't get it until late next week. I plan on installing the system on March 14th.

-Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Icymudpuppy:
I won't get it until late next week. I plan on installing the system on March 14th.

-Jack

I'm interested to hear how your install went and if you're getting any mileage improvement. Get back to us when you have some data.

By the way, be aware of these guys: http://www.preignitioncc.com/ts/index.htm

They had full page ads in magazines such as Pop Mechanics and others. I saw them a couple of weeks ago at the Washington International Renewable Energy Conference where they had a really big booth and a couple of vehicles on display.

There were long lines of folks interested in their stuff.... energy experts from around the world. And they had a staff of sales/distributors talking about how they guaranteed 50% increase in fuel mileage and many got three times the mileage.

But, no one had one installed in their own vehicles yet. Hmmmmmm....

This is one of those "sounds too good to be true" and is looking that way more and more. A buddy did some research. The main guy has a long track record of fraud including time behind bars for it.

Sad... I was really hopeful.

Your mileage gains are going to be minimal, only due to the combustion efficiency and perhaps small improvements in thermal efficiency due to improved combustion characteristics of hydrogen. Generating hydrogen from water, then reburning it is approximately 60% efficient, and since the energy input is from the alternator driven from the crank, this "mileage improver" is marginal at best. If you get some mileage benefit, adding more will only drop your mileage. Roof mounted PV panels to power the system will result in a net energy gain though.

Hydrogen works as a catalyst to help the gas/diesel combust creating better mileage. Or that is what it suppose to do. I guess we will find out if it works when Icymudpuppy gets back to us. My next project was to make one of those electrolysis machines.

quote:

Originally posted by Grease gun:
Hydrogen works as a catalyst to help the gas/diesel combust creating better mileage. Or that is what it suppose to do. I guess we will find out if it works when Icymudpuppy gets back to us. My next project was to make one of those electrolysis machines.

A catalyst? Only if you consider the RUG in a gasoline/vegoil blend a "catalyst" because it helps fire off the oil.

quote:

A catalyst? Only if you consider the RUG in a gasoline/vegoil blend a "catalyst" because it helps fire off the oil.

Doesn't the RUG in a blend suppose to thin the mixture?

Well, has there been a verdict on whether or not your contraption works?

quote:

Originally posted by Grease gun:

quote:

A catalyst? Only if you consider the RUG in a gasoline/vegoil blend a "catalyst" because it helps fire off the oil.

Doesn't the RUG in a blend suppose to thin the mixture?

It does that too.

OK - I don't have any association with this..

I just listened to a 2 hour discussion about this subject on Coast-to-Coast radio (night of 05-8/9-08, the old Art Bell show). The host was George Norry and the guests were a couple guys trying to start a small business spreading info about this process. The website is a bit odd with it's old style tabloid graphics and a good bit of marketing hype but it is an interesting read. $97.00 for the E-books seems a bit steep though (in the radio interview they did not mention 97 bucks but hinted at 30?).

There website is water4gas.com (HERE). The website shows some pics from there E-books but looks like there only actual product on this site are a couple of continuously updated downloadable how-to E-books. The radio discussion indicated they had verious hardware also available, may be links someplace on there site, I didn't spend much time looking.

They seem like normal young advertising-type folks that are just getting a business going, one was the originator of the website, the other was an independant installation guy, something like a franchise to install the actual hardware on the vehicles, a bit of a confusing business model, one guy builds the equipment, one markets it on the web, and there are franchised installers around the country, (I think that is the model anyway). They are marketing someone elses equipment, his name is Ozzie Fredom?.

There discussion gave a good bit of general info on there system and how they have bits and pieces available to fool newer vehicles computers so they lean out the fuel/air mixture as much as possible depending on the specific vehicle. The milage increases stated may have more due to this lean-out than with the hydrogen?

During the call-in period after the interview a guy called in saying he was the ceo of a Florida manufacturing and development company under liscence to the Wankle rotary engine co, could have been a shill but he sounded the right age and did not seem to have any nervousness in his voice. He indicated they had tested this process and found it worked well, the main function is that even a small amount of gas is all that is needed, didn't specify if hydrogen-only, or both hydrogen and oxygen. He specifically stated that a 1.7 liter/minute flow allowed them to lean out the air/fuel ratio as lean as 40-to-1, rather than the normal 14.7-to-1, without reducing the hp. don't know what type or size engine this was tested with.

They may post the interview for downloading if enough folks request it?

Okay gentlemen. It has been a few months since I originally posted.

Here are the results.

Average fuel economy before installation computed over 3 years of regular checks=
18mpg on diesel
17.5 mpg on BioD
15mpg on VegOil

Average fuel economy after installation 500miles on Diesel, 250miles on BioD, and 3000 miles on VegOil.

25.3 mpg on Diesel
23.6 mpg on BioD
21 mpg on VegOil

Fuel economy as a percent gain
40.5% on Diesel
35.8% on BioD
35.4% on VegOil

Way better than anticipated. I was guaranteed 15% economy improvement, and am absolutely thrilled at the results.

I have also noticed more horsepower on VegOil, but I don't know exactly how much. Before, when I ran on VegOil, my truck could not exceed 83mph. With the hydrogen, I am able to go over 95mph on VegOil (I'm afraid to go faster). Not bad for a fully loaded F-250 with extra drag from ladders and tool racks.

Here's the website to order one.

I've already ordered two more for my other business trucks.

-Jack

http://mileagemaker.us?a_aid=9e5ada82

P.S. Read the instructions very carefully. Overfilling the units can result in the unit overheating, and contamination of the gas delivery hoses.

Impressive, thanks for the testing, this seems to give some pretty impressive real-world results, enough anyway that I may have to attempt cobbeling together some sort of home-built unit for testing.

Does your F-250 have a computer controlling the engine, did you make any other changes to fool the computer, or any changes to the engine, or turbo control, or whatever?

Have you noticed any increased heat being indicated by your temp guage, is there any increase in engine noise (ping) that might be associated with the almost instantaneous burn rate of the hydrogen/oxygen gas mixture?

$1300.00 bucks is pretty pricy, my quicky numbers seem to indicate it will take around 350-400 gallons of fuel saved to cover the initial cost, that translates to around 7000 miles traveled at the higher fuel economy rate (I think anyway, give-or-take, depending on how you do the calculations), not bad.

Jack,

quote:

Way better than anticipated. I was guaranteed 15% economy improvement, and am absolutely thrilled at the results.

That is Fantastic!.

Way to go and thanks for reporting the results.

How hard was the install?
Which unit did you use, and how did you choose the size for your vehicle?

Listening to Coast-to-Coast radio again tonight about upcoming legislation requiering all new vehicles to be flex-fuel. A trucker called in and indicated he had installed one of the hydrogen generator units available from the CHEC HFI company, referanced in the first post of this thread, on his semi, he indicated his milage went from 4 1/2 MPG to 10 MPG.

quote:

Originally posted by Tim c cook:
Impressive, thanks for the testing, this seems to give some pretty impressive real-world results, enough anyway that I may have to attempt cobbeling together some sort of home-built unit for testing.

Not hard to do. I could have built my own unit for considerably less cost, but lets face it, I'm not a very good engineer. I'm willing to pay for someone else's design.

quote:

Does your F-250 have a computer controlling the engine, did you make any other changes to fool the computer, or any changes to the engine, or turbo control, or whatever?

It is computer controlled. A few months back, I consulted Jason Crawford at Vegistroke about fuel mixes and additives affecting fuel consumption and injection in an 99-03 7.3L Ford. He replied that the computer should automatically adjust the fuel intake after about 100 miles of normal driving. Other vehicles may have different results.

quote:

Have you noticed any increased heat being indicated by your temp guage, is there any increase in engine noise (ping) that might be associated with the almost instantaneous burn rate of the hydrogen/oxygen gas mixture?

Much like running on VO, running was sensorily, anti-climatic. My fuel guage just went down slower, and I had more top end HP.

quote:

$1300.00 bucks is pretty pricy, my quicky numbers seem to indicate it will take around 350-400 gallons of fuel saved to cover the initial cost, that translates to around 7000 miles traveled at the higher fuel economy rate (I think anyway, give-or-take, depending on how you do the calculations), not bad.

Yeah, it is pricey, but I spent a lot more on my Vegistroke. I also have spent more on business advertising that didn't work at all...

quote:

How hard was the install?

Easy. Took me just a few hours in my yard. No special tools needed.

quote:

Which unit did you use, and how did you choose the size for your vehicle?

Gordon (the inventer of the Mileage Maker system) has listed different units for their size. Larger engines need more production. It's a linear relationship. I am using the Tri-pak unit for my 7.3L diesel.

I bought a 2-pak for my 4.3L GMC, and a single(econo)-pak for my 1.4L Geo.

The system is modular, so if you have two vehicles w/ similar sized engines that rarely get used at the same time, you can move the unit from one vehicle to another. That is what I will do with my IHC backup truck.

quote:

CHEC HFI company, referanced in the first post of this thread, on his semi, he indicated his milage went from 4 1/2 MPG to 10 MPG

I have no doubt that CHEC HFI is the most extensively engineered system on the market for hydrogen boost, but they don't have small car units, and they are about $5000 for their light truck units, and there is no home-installation... Only through their authorized dealers. Mileage maker is well designed, and much more affordable, plus easy to install at home.

quote:

This is one of those "sounds too good to be true" and is looking that way more and more. A buddy did some research. The main guy has a long track record of fraud including time behind bars for it.

Sad... I was really hopeful.

Sounds like the Lovecraft of the Hydrogen world.