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The Spinner Centrifuge Plans: Review

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September 07, 2006, 11:24 PM
jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo)
The Spinner Centrifuge Plans: Review
quote:
Originally posted by jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo):
quote:
Originally posted by SunWizard:
Check out these products, 2 different small centrifuges ...Seems like these would be an easy way to go, has anyone tried one?
Do a search in here. Both have been discussed a good bit if I'm not mistaken.
Yep I found a good bit in here on the spinner II. Was said it does seperate water but then reintroduces it right back into the fuel. Also Dana found it to (first pass) emulsify water into the oil which is even worse to remove. They have been VERY uncooperative in giving prices and info etc as well so it seems.


_________________________
If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
September 07, 2006, 11:36 PM
SunWizard
quote:
Do a search in here. Both have been discussed a good bit if I'm not mistaken.

Also remember. These operate off of fuel or oil pressure. Pressure created from a pump driven by a 4 to 12 piston diesel engine. There for to use them for our purpose you have to buy a high pressure pump to push the oil at huge gals/min. Such pumps alone will cost $200 to $500

Now for over the road filtering hmmmmm? Say put a 12v fuel pump(s) on your engine for feeding fuel and use your OEM lift pump for continual pushing HOT HEATED oil (to lower viscosity) thru this thing to clean your oil. hmmmmm. Might have to do a search again on the spinner II hmmmmm.


I find no discussion of the dieselcraft, it is new and I think much better than the spinner II. It only needs 40 psi so could easily be run off cheaper gear pumps, lots of oil pumps will do. I can find lots that do the required 60psi at 45GPH, it would be nice to filter a barrel to 0.5 micron in one pass in an hour. Many of us already are using gear pumps that would work to run it.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
September 07, 2006, 11:39 PM
SunWizard
quote:
Yep I found a good bit in here on the spinner II. Was said it does seperate water but then reintroduces it right back into the fuel. Also Dana found it to (first pass) emulsify water into the oil which is even worse to remove. They have been VERY uncooperative in giving prices and info etc as well so it seems.


The dieselcraft is $250.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
September 07, 2006, 11:40 PM
JOAT
Yeh, the spinner is an enclosed system, like some motorcycles use instead of a filter. Works great removing solids, but not water (other than a trace).

Short of a stacked plate centrifuge specifically tuned for our purposes, an open drum aka basket centrifuge like Buuuuud's is probably the most ideal, as long as you stop and clea it before it fills with water or crud.

I think Lavin probably has the least expensive comparable commercial models, but still thousands of dollars. Pic part way down is what I was originally modeling my centrifuge experiment off of.
http://www.lavincentrifuge.com/index.html
September 07, 2006, 11:57 PM
SunWizard
quote:
Yeh, the spinner is an enclosed system, like some motorcycles use instead of a filter. Works great removing solids, but not water (other than a trace).


I know easy ways to remove the water beforehand if needed, but I like the idea of filtering to 0.5 micron in one pass that the dieselcraft can do. I also wonder if it might be easy to modify the dieselcraft to remove the water by something simple like drilling holes in the right spots. Since it removes the water and then recombines it in the outlet. I may get one and do some research + development on it.


YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary, see www.burnveg.com/forum
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4
Zero fossil house- 100% solar power and heat.
September 08, 2006, 12:11 AM
JOAT
What I've seen in motorcycles if excess water got in the oil is the water got churned into a gooey emulsion, which seems to be what (dana?) said the spinner does. If the spinner separated water without emulsifying, it would be easy to separate later.
September 08, 2006, 06:24 AM
im6under
don't know about diesel craft but I talked to the rep at spinner II,

it will not seperate water according to the manufacturer.

(memory) "not a chance, it spins at "X" rpms but it isn't very big a diameter, you'd have to spin it up to 15,000 rpm to clear the water out and it isn't designed for any where near that speed."


Though your argument is very clever, I don't think it will lead to the results you desire. gandhi
September 08, 2006, 06:46 AM
im6under
quote:
This will balance to within about a 1 gram at 6 inches. That's just enough out of balance to feel a slight shimmy at 3600 rpm, which should be good enough for most purposes.

good post johno,

much easier on the homeowner than playing with a strobe.


Though your argument is very clever, I don't think it will lead to the results you desire. gandhi
September 08, 2006, 08:03 AM
flysurge
Have balanced props like this for years....We remove material rather than adding.

On a side note picked up a few of the medical centrifuges last night. Looks promising....Two are rated for over 15000 rpm....but spindles will need redesigning for rotor. All are refrigerated......so could use the compressor for a vacuum pump for other projects. Will check voltage requirements today. Have less than 100.00 each in them as of now. I should be able to check them to check function next week. Anyone who wants one get in touch. Located central Jersey 07719 zip. RICK
September 08, 2006, 08:25 AM
JOAT
Just realised we were getting off topic here with the spinner and such Frown

I'm back over in THIS POST with some ideas not related to Buuuuud's plans...
September 08, 2006, 07:08 PM
Jwrench2
Hey Buuuuud, Got the plans today and they look sweet! Thanks again.
As soon as I get one built I'll post my thoughts on it. Just remember that it may take me awhile to get it built, cause sometimes things go slower here in the Ozarks. LOL
John
September 13, 2006, 01:21 PM
greencab
Hi,
Buuuuuuud,
how have you tested the quality of your oil?
I use Finning to test My oil.
To give you an Idea of Particle load Standards-

Pure Virgin Canola 1200 ppm > 5 Micron

Oil from a high milage wvo users tank 62000 ppm > 5 Micron

Deisel 250 ppm > 5 Micron
September 13, 2006, 02:30 PM
danalinscott
quote:
I use Finning to test My oil.


Finning?
September 13, 2006, 02:54 PM
B&E
quote:
Finning to test My oil



http://sos.finning.ca/
September 13, 2006, 10:32 PM
BENS 300SD
BUD, I received the centrifuge plans, thanks! I have a 2.5 horse motor off a planer that spins at 4500 rpms. Is that too fast- you'd mentioned 3400 rpms? thanks, Bens 300sd
September 14, 2006, 12:06 PM
Buuuuud
Ben,

4500 rpm's, I feel is more than needed, but it should be OK if the shaft is large enough to carry the load of the rotor and the oil volumn in the rotor when it is operating. Also, I would think it should be no larger than 8" diameter and 4" high. If I was using that motor, I would use an 8" diameter and 3" high as the additional rpm's will increase the "G" force and with the lesser oil volumn your oil should be cleaner than if it was turning 3400 rpm's. The time the oil spends in the rotor is directly related to how clean the oil becomes.

The main reason to be concerned about the shaft size would be a safty factor, in case that at some time the rotor/and oil should become unbalanced. I have had, in the past, a layer of hard contaminants that didn't clean out good and when I restarted the centrifuge, it vibrated until I shut it down and recleaned the rotor.

I would be glad to talk with you on the phone, if you would like to call.

That's my opinion, from here in the West.

Buuuuud
September 17, 2006, 11:37 PM
MadBioD
I will be ordering buuuds plans as I have been eoing research for several years on this subject but have not spent the money to fabricat anything. I applaud Budd for going forth and moving from paper to metal….HOWEVER even before seeing the plans I NEED to say loudly . Please when anyone builds these things have the roter well shielded and better with two layers of strong materials, impact and energy absorbing materials .

I have worked in biotech and the food biz where a broad variety of centrifuges are used all the time. There are many horror stories across these industries from exploding rotors due to stresses that build over time weakening the rotors. There are often requirements that the rotors be replaced on a regular time of use schedule to reduce the potential stress fatigue problems becoming fatal to operators.
Now granted these things often run 30,000- 100,000 rpm’s in a vacuum environment but the stress on a homemade meticulously home balanced system 8 inches in diameter ( pretty good but not absolutely balanced) will likely accumulate much faster than a highly engineered rotor running at three to ten times the speed.

OH and forget wood covered with carbon or fiberglass. The composite materials alone might be best to work with but not composited with wood for these G’s.

In the pharma biz they have progressed through many kinds of materials for centrifuges . carbon and graphite fiber is used now, before that magnesium and aluminum, before that steel
The Idea the last 20 years has been to have the strongest and lightest material possible in the process rotor.

I am looking forward to playing variations on the theme you have designed and building a good multilayer cabinet to run it within. .

I have been thinking you might allow the purchasers of your plans to form a brain trust and private forum to eliminate some of the reinventing. I for example have Lots of experience with sealing O-rings and mechanical seals and gaskets ect.
I am sure someone else has lots of bearings or motor control or gear drive or drive
experience, balancing ect.

My home cooked plans were more of the $1000-1,500 home made variety with double mechanical seals and self adjustable flow rates. More complex is not always better.


Barleywine cures many ills.
September 18, 2006, 12:48 AM
jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo)
quote:
Originally posted by MadBioD:
... Please when anyone builds these things have the roter well shielded and better with two layers of strong materials, impact and energy absorbing materials .

... There are many horror stories across these industries from exploding rotors due to stresses that build over time weakening the rotors. There are often requirements that the rotors be replaced on a regular time of use schedule to reduce the potential stress fatigue problems becoming fatal to operators.
Now granted these things often run 30,000- 100,000 rpm’s in a vacuum environment but the stress on a homemade meticulously home balanced system 8 inches in diameter ( pretty good but not absolutely balanced) will likely accumulate much faster than a highly engineered rotor running at three to ten times the speed.
....
The potential Rotor issues is putting a damber on this centrifuge idea. Does a rotating bowl design have the same degree of danger issues as a rotor design? (See Greasy300TDTurbo's post about 5/8 way down the page about this centrifuge design.


_________________________
If you believe you can't YOUR RIGHT;

But equally so.... if you believe you can, YOUR RIGHT as well.
September 18, 2006, 01:19 AM
Tim c cook
When doing a bit of web searching on this subject I ran across an article about a university lab accident with a standard "liquid-in-a vial" type lab centrifuge. This is not a fair comparison as I suspect the rotor speed of this industrial unit was many multiples of times the speed we are talking about here (did not research this) but it does demonstrate the energies involved. The rotor came apart at full speed, took out the machine, a refrigerator, a freezer, some shelving, windows in the room, and shrapnelled the walls and ceiling. luckily no one was in the room at the time. Just a caution, I think I will stick to settling and filtering. The report, with pictures, is here.
September 18, 2006, 07:27 AM
flysurge
I think it should be a concern,,,,,however your right about relative speeds. The surplus medical centrifuges I picked up run at 20,000 plus. All have very heavy containment tanks. The spindles on these motors are not very large. I think the 7/16 to 5/8 shafts turning at 3400 rpm is fine. That said I am going to use the industrial centrifuge cabinet for containment, and its large vacuum pump for oil collection and moving. The motors are not compatible with our uses.