quote:

Originally posted by jon h.:
I have a couple of questions regarding the Spin Clean. I am using it (FF60LE) to wash out the soaps and any residual water in my finished biodiesel.

The O-rings are clearly natural rubber, and my biodiesel has caused them to swell to the point where they won't go back into the sealing points. Does anyone know the sizes to get viton seals?

Also is it ok to set these up on a timer so they can be set to run for a few hours and then turn off on their own? I am not that worried about capturing anything on shutdown.

I cant see any reason not to use a timer, I am interested in using a CF on finished bio also, how is it working for you? Do you actually catch soap in your rotor? Do you use koh or naoh?

Might want to ask about that in the biodiesel section.

I know sunwizard has expressed that shutting down relases some moisture back into his wvo. Unless he's there to turn a valve and direct the oil that falls out of the centrifuge into a seperate collection bucket. I'm unsure the impurities that have collected in the centrifuge would act the same in wvo as biodiesel.

Always possible to set the centrifuge to come on several hours before you know you'll be nearby for shutdown too

I catch quite a bit of soap, but I don't water wash. I just remove the methanol, spray it to get some of the soap to clump - float and skim off - then run the centrifuge.

Anybody know the size of the o-rings.

quote:

Originally posted by jon h.:
I catch quite a bit of soap, but I don't water wash. I just remove the methanol, spray it to get some of the soap to clump - float and skim off - then run the centrifuge.

Anybody know the size of the o-rings.

Thanks Jon, I would give diesel products a call, they could probably tell you the size, they may even have viton o rings available, if you can find out the sizes you can go to mcmaster car search for viton o rings and find your size they have a lot or o ring sizes, do you use koh or naoh in your process?

I've been using NaOH. I emailed them asking for the size of the seals. The reply was that somebody from sales would get in touch with me for the more expensive viton seals. That was a few days ago,,,,,

Maybe I'll just take my calipers and figure out the size on my own. Unless they are really expensive, I'll just order a couple within the range from McMAster.

quote:

Thanks Jon, I would give diesel products a call, they could probably tell you the size, they may even have viton o rings available, if you can find out the sizes you can go to mcmaster car search for viton o rings and find your size they have a lot or o ring sizes

I ordered an extra rotor and extra O-rings/seals etc with my unit.

I have a new concern.

I am going to go with the Grainger 6PA32 gear pump/motor. (I too need to stop wasting time looking to save about $200) and just have a pump that works. However, my plan was always to use this pump for two purposes. 1. To send the oil under pressure to the CF. 2. After CF stage, I was also going to use this pump to drive the processor for the mix stage. However, I am not mixing at the pump, I am going to use the GL1 system, so the actual mixing occurs away from the pump up in the vacuum area (Venturi effect) near the top of the 55 gallon drum (The CF at this point cut out during the mix). However while speaking to the tech guy at Grainger he said some something to the effect that this pump was not designed to be used in the methanol mix and because methanol is flammable I could cause an explosion. That of course is possible anytime working with Methanol, but I wanted to check with the experienced people here about what they think about mixing using a gear pump like this.

Doug

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he said some something to the effect that this pump was not designed to be used in the methanol mix and because methanol is flammable I could cause an explosion

IIRC, most explosions are just fast chemical combustion, so if air is not available there shouldn't be any issue unless the materials involved carry their own oxygen. I think a fuel-air bomb works differently than a chunk of C4.

Unless methanol can burn/explode without air, I'd say you're okay. Verify whether your pump seals can handle meth first though. Usually, brass (sparkless) pumps are recomended for scary stuff, but I don't know if brass is compatable with meth/methoxide.

I accept no responsability/liability for any deaths/injuries/material losses arising from/pursuant to the use/misuse of advice/information given.

Verify all details before proceeding...

Will a 1980's Honda / Acura gear type PS pump combined with 1725 rpm 1/3 hp motor provide enough output for the FF60LE . BTW - a suggestion motor pulley size ? - Thanks

edit - I did a little more searching through Sunwizard's excellent Dieselcraft CF thread . It looks like the Honda PS pump might only be adequate for the smaller CFs. Anyone try it ?

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/2001011761/p/102

BTW - Link wiring a salvaged washer / washing machine motor . Be carefully of the open frame electric hazard - need to be safely enclosed ) - http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/159605551/m/9391076182

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rkpatt,

To jon h and anybody that has trouble finding "O" rings the right size. Find out the diameter of the o ring then make your own. Go to the local auto parts store, get some o rings the same diameter, cut them to size (length) and super glue the ends togeather. Works like a charm!! I've almost got my spin clean centrifuge ready and can't wait to get rid of all of the filter equipment.

Diesel Products has been out of stock on the FF60LE, they say they will have a new shipment in on tuesday and mine will ship within 48 hours.

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Hi guys. I just ordered an FF60LE today. Mike said their shipment is delayed a bit, apparently demand for the FF60s was higher than expected. He said they'd send it out some time next week.

Yeah, I'm anxiously waiting for mine too!

Welder --
This might be a bit late but I've been snoozin waiting for my pump. Had almost no problem setting it up and look forward to plumbing soon. In regard to pump/motor sizing relationship, here is some info off of the tech help at Surplus Center. I found it handy sizing my FF60. Turns out a 1/3 hp motor should turn them ok for sure with a direct coupling. I don't know how much efficiency one loses with the pulley system.
Pumping = 1 Hp = 1 GPM x 1500 Psi
(linear relationship i.e. 2 GPM @ 1500 Psi = 2 Hp)


Hp to drive hydraulic pump = Psi x GPM / 1714


Efficiency - typically assume hydraulic pump/motor efficiency of 85%

Sooo close! I have been putting together an FF60 and spent a lot of time on it this week, mostly trying to get the welds to seal on my heater . Finally I JB Welded over all of the welds that had pinholes from the cast fittings. I hope the JB Weld holds. I fired it up briefly last night and was very impressed with all of my efforts except I discovered the pulley on my motor is too small and would only give me 50 psi. A tip to anyone putting one together, my pulleys are the correct ratio but the one on the motor is wider and the belt rides a lot lower throwing off the ratio. I kicked myself for not noticing that while fabbing everything, welding, disassembling for paint, forest for the trees I guess. Unfortunately I had to go out of town for work for two weeks but I'll finish it and take pictures when I get back. Thanks to everyone who went before me, I am stoked about this thing! Tigafila

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Sooo close! I have been putting together an FF60 and spent a lot of time on it this week, mostly trying to get the welds to seal on my heater . Finally I JB Welded over all of the welds that had pinholes from the cast fittings. I hope the JB Weld holds.

I feel your pain.

When being welded, cast iron likes a pre-heat, then the actual weld, then a post heat period to slooooowly cool down under insulation. It's not too flexible and can crack from the mech stresses induced by welds cooling and shrinking.

If your heater was the usual element-in-a-pipe type where the element is threaded through a T-fitting with a pipe also threaded in, then it's most likely threaded NPT and needs no welding to seal properly. Some Permatex thread sealer (high temp) and some decent torque while tightening should keep it from leaking.



Personally, I like the idea of heating all flammable liquids via another non-flammable liquid intermediate like H2O+ethylene glycol, or maybe just pure propylene glycol. A flat plate heat exchanger and a couple pumps are all that's needed to avoid having a high watt density element submerged in flammable liquids. I know the argument that as long as air doesn't contact the element then it should be safe, but water doesn't often start fires directly.

If my system ever leaks double containment will prevent tragedy. As well, if the tiny hot water tank leaks, no fire will result from the element being exposed to air (no fuel, no fire).

Welder, thanks for the tip on cast. I didn't want to take a chance on just sealing and tightening the joints on the heater because I insulated it after welding/jb welding. Certain other parts I used Permatex high temp thread sealant on but not those and not the joints on the "manifold" attached to the centrifuge where all the valves and bypass are, I didn't want vibration loosening the manifold joints up but in hind sight this thing doesn't vibrate much anyway. If I had it to do over I probably would just weld/jb weld the heater but I can't say for sure till I get some experience when it's running properly. I understand your concern about heating elements contacting combustibles but don't share it. I wired my heaters so they can't come on till the pump is turned on and that eliminates any concern I had. This stuff is hard enough to ignite anyway, the worst that can happen is if I pump it dry with the heater(s) on I'll burn out an element. Indirect heating is great but I want to be able to move it around the garage to filter from different tanks, drums, & 275 gallon totes. I will post pictures but it's pretty cool with an extendable arm to reach over different containers. The dual heaters on 220 work great and with both on I could start filtering almost immediately (if I had the right pulleys ). Tigafila

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I understand your concern about heating elements contacting combustibles but don't share it. I wired my heaters so they can't come on till the pump is turned on and that eliminates any concern I had. This stuff is hard enough to ignite anyway

I want to be able to insure my system for liabilty. That means I need it so super safe that even a paranoid insurance agent can see that a fire is IMPOSSIBLE.

I figure that indirect heating, redundant thermostatic control of heaters and double containment should be enought to reduce the insurance fees to something relatively painless.

quote:

Originally posted by rkpatt:
Will a 1980's Honda / Acura gear type PS pump combined with 1725 rpm 1/3 hp motor provide enough output for the FF60LE . BTW - a suggestion motor pulley size ? - Thanks

I don't know for sure. I use mine with teh FF25, which is hald the flow rate. However, I originally had a 3 inch pulley on my motor and the stock pulley on the pump, and that was way too much oil. I changed the motor pulley to a 2 1/4 inch pulley, and it is now perfect. I don't need to throttle oil past the CF to keep it at 90 psi. It stays between 90 and 100 or so on its own.

So since turning it twice as fast would yield twice the flow rate, and turning it that fast should still be within designed operating conditions,(I'm pretty sure that is the case.) I think it would be fine. I'd try a 4.5 inch pulley, or maybe something slightly larger just to be safe. However, I don't think that a 1/3 HP motor will do it. I think it has been found that either 1/4 or 1/3 HP is the minimum for 60 gph. So I'd think that you'd need to go to at least a 1/2 HP, and probably even a 3/4 HP. I use a 1/2 HP, so that is probably part of the reason that it had no trouble at all pumping much faster than 60 gph.

"I figure that indirect heating, redundant thermostatic control of heaters and double containment should be enought to reduce the insurance fees to something relatively painless.[/QUOTE]

How long does it take to heat? Seems like it would take forever at these flow rates or am I way off? Tigafila

quote:

Originally posted by welder:
I want to be able to insure my system for liabilty. That means I need it so super safe that even a paranoid insurance agent can see that a fire is IMPOSSIBLE.

The easy (and maybe only) way to reduce the insurance would be to put it in a separate not attached building like a small metal shed. Since just storing 40 gallons of VO in your structure would be against their rules, regardless of your processor.