Hi guys.

I haven't read this thread for a long time. I've missed a lot of info.

I have a simple question for you all: Do the Spin Clean CFs dewater reasonably well?

The other day, someone on the forum mentioned on adifferent thread that their SpinClean wasn't really drying their oil very well, but they accepted the poor performance and seemed happy with the particle removal functioning.

Do these things dry oil decently?



My other question was regarding price: How do these things compare to a Diesel Craft CF in terms of purchase cost?

quote:

SunWizard
Member
Posted 15 August 2007 01:04 PM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mgun:
Maybe they figured out the competition was 2x the price.


I don't know what CF you are comparing to, but the dieselcraft is the closest one, the forum member price is $219 shipped on this page. And the Spin Clean special was $170 shipped. That is no where near 2x. Too bad if they raised the price on the spin clean to $200 shipped since then its almost the same as the dieselcraft at $219 shipped.

YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 Running on B100 and 2 tank WVO.
81 Mercedes 300D
Low fossil house- 100% solar/wind power, 90% solar heated.

Location: N. Colorado | Registered: 31 August 2006

Considering price, back when Sunwizard first quoted this link, the DC CFs likely were the $219 he said they were (I trust Sun), but following the link now will show an $80 increase in price. No doubt, it will be explained as supply and demand.

Unfortunately, the Spin Clean guys don't list their prices on their site.

Here is the link to a ZeroStart products catalog. the specs for heaters start around page 62 and on.

http://www.phillipsandtemro.com/Files/Catalog_06_US.pdf

You might consider a Goggle search of the name of the units you are asking about, you should be able to find there Catalog and specs.

Ken
Central NY

If someone wants it, I have a Zerostart 750W tank type heater brand new I decided not to use. $25 plus shipping.

quote:

Originally posted by Flyboyd8:
As far as dewatering oil goes.

I believe it is acomplished by pressurizing Hot oil out threw nozzles, alowing the water to vaporize and drift away. ...

Flyboy hmmmm... think you need to do a search and some reading on basic principles of how a Centrifuge works . The jets have little* to nothing to do with how it dewaters. The jets provide the spin that makes the the thing work like any other spinning liquid type centrifuge.

* there MAY be some flash evaporation going on with the Jets too but; from reading, this appears to be minimal especially compared to the Centrifuge actions taking place.

quote:

Ok, I may be wrong and need to do some more research, but it is my understanding that water being heavier than oil will be trapped in the bowl of the CF by centrifigal force. Any water that makes it threw the nozzles at 90+ PSI and 160F+ will be flash evaporated. Is this close to how a Centrifuge works? I may not know how it works but I do know it works well with my oil. In the cold Northeast winter months I know it works well.

I think the only way these types of CFs dewater is when any water flashes out of the oil stream as it's recirculated back into the top of the oil drum. If so, I'd bet that sealing the oil drum up pressure tight might be dangerous as the steam pressure rises throughout the entire sealed system.

Without the oil barrel being sealed, the steam can harmlessly gass off from the drums opening.

I'm glad you mentioned this issue of dewatering mechanism, Flyboyd8, or I might have been hurt.

This makes me think that it might make sense to pay some attention to the oil drums top openings and the return pipes structure in order to optimise evaporation from the area. Maybe some sort of nozzle to spray the oil back into the top in large enough droplets to allow for greater evaporative surface area, but without making fine enough droplets to cause overspray problems like a paint sprayer.

Please cite your authority; I'd be very interested in knowing where I missed finding that information.

quote:

Originally posted by evangelos:
its preset to a maximum of 175F; there are several on the market depending on the wattage but all have the same cut-off point.

Oilitright:

I know your question wasn't directed at me, but I posted a link to ZeroStart heaters above, It lists the specs for their heaters and there is no standard with them. If you will open the link, around page 62 is were the specs. start. some are 140F others go as high as 170f, some even have replacable elements and thermostats. they even offer thermostats to go in hoses to control their heaters.

As you know I am no Authority on any thing.

Ken

Central NY

Yey, that's the beauty of forums, you ask one guy a question and if you're lucky someone will answer! I think chat boards, discussion groups are the best thing since sliced bread. First got on them in the 70's eons before the internet, IBM clones or the AppleII, dial up analog modems that were acoustically coupled; ancient history like me

Welder:

I use an open top drum in my setup, it is water vapor, not steam. I believe the purpose of the vent pipe off the tees at the bottom of CFs that people use on closed top drum is to vent the vapor and egualize the pressure so the CF will continue to spin.

Photos of my rig are on page 14, I cover my drum with 2 pieces of 2" closed cell foam, it is not air tight with a 3" by 3" hole and seam in the middle.

Have you run any oil threw you CF yet? how is yours doing?

As you know I am no Authority on any thing.

Ken

will be spinning my next batch 10:00 AM today.

quote:

Have you run any oil threw you CF yet? how is yours doing?

As you know I am no Authority on any thing.

I haven't bought mine yet. I figured I better wait until you brave souls test the CFs first, that's why I was asking how well they dewater.

P.S., I'm no authority on anything either, but sometimes I like to pretend that I know how to weld! (LOL)

quote:

Originally posted by jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo):
Flyboy hmmmm... think you need to do a search and some reading on basic principles of how a Centrifuge works . The jets have little* to nothing to do with how it dewaters. The jets provide the spin that makes the the thing work like any other spinning liquid type centrifuge.

* there MAY be some flash evaporation going on with the Jets too but; from reading, this appears to be minimal especially compared to the Centrifuge actions taking place.

Actually there are places where it is noted that lots of steam comes out of the CF if the oil is hot and wet. It is not an insignificant phenomenon. Especially not enough to tell someone that they need to go read up on how CFs work when you yourself have given explanations of how they work in the past that were actually wrong. I'm not trying to start a flaming contest, but I think you are unjustified in being a little too aggressive.

I have a Dieselcraft and have ran about 250 gal so far, not as much as many of you. Through recent tests I have conducted, I have reason to believe these types of CF's (i.e. lube oil CF's) dewater mainly by flash evaporation and NOT by centrifugal action.

Please participate in this CF Poll.

quote:

Originally posted by weelliott:

quote:

Originally posted by jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo):
Flyboy hmmmm... think you need to do a search and some reading on basic principles of how a Centrifuge works . The jets have little* to nothing to do with how it dewaters. The jets provide the spin that makes the the thing work like any other spinning liquid type centrifuge.

* there MAY be some flash evaporation going on with the Jets too but; from reading, this appears to be minimal especially compared to the Centrifuge actions taking place.

Actually there are places where it is noted that lots of steam comes out of the CF if the oil is hot and wet. It is not an insignificant phenomenon. Especially not enough to tell someone that they need to go read up on how CFs work when you yourself have given explanations of how they work in the past that were actually wrong. I'm not trying to start a flaming contest, but I think you are unjustified in being a little too aggressive.

quote:

Originally posted by weelliott:

quote:

Originally posted by jeepin, moggin Jessup (coachgeo):
Flyboy hmmmm... think you need to do a search and some reading on basic principles of how a Centrifuge works . The jets have little* to nothing to do with how it dewaters. The jets provide the spin that makes the the thing work like any other spinning liquid type centrifuge.

* there MAY be some flash evaporation going on with the Jets too but; from reading, this appears to be minimal especially compared to the Centrifuge actions taking place.

Actually there are places where it is noted that lots of steam comes out of the CF if the oil is hot and wet. It is not an insignificant phenomenon. Especially not enough to tell someone that they need to go read up on how CFs work when you yourself have given explanations of how they work in the past that were actually wrong. I'm not trying to start a flaming contest, but I think you are unjustified in being a little too aggressive.

No flame felt. Very interesting. Untill this thread, I had not even gotten one hint from anyone posting in here that folk were seeing that these units dont dewater primarily via centrifuge action.

Two ways can see this to be true and of course I could be wayyyyy wrong on both but.... to make this fit "the science" of CF... is if a person CFing oil, where there is no free water (it was presettled out?). Thus the oil contains basically only some suspended water whose suspension bond is strong enough to not be released by centrifical action of these units. The jets could in that case be acting as a second stage dewater (flash evaporator).

Would be interesting to know if those with real wet oil who witnessed the large steam amounts as you described ALSO had water in their bowl when done.

Someone with nearly dry oil, basically containing only suspended water and junk.. then you have to ask if the CF is worth the cost (including time and labor) over a good home brewed, settling, filtering and flash evaporator or other dewater methods like the upflow. Would be an interesting cost/time/efficency study.

Of course...... got to admit their maybe a second explanation ... as you guys are proposing.... in that the CF action is actually not good enough to remove water (I was assuming it was) and is only good enough to take out the heavier than water crud ..... then you folk would be right in that the jet action is working as the sole water seperator via flash evaporation. If that is the case that takes one back to the previous question on the cost/time/effciency study.

On a side note it would be interesting to know the water content within the crud that gets removed from the bowl. Has anyone put this stuff in a jar and let it settle to see if there is water in it or heated it to distill out water to test it's volume?

Boy I hope it turns out the CF action is doing more dewatering than the flash evaporation. Cause if its not then..... makes me nervous on its ability to do its job to remove some stuff from engine oil because (if I understand how they are installed correctly) their is no provision in it for anything evaporated out to escape. It would re liquify and go right back into the sump oil.

Maybe they dont expect any water or anything else that could be flash evaporated to be suspended in the sump oil it's designed to clean?

Now that I think about it..... isn't there one of these sump oil CF's that does apply a little vaccume to aid in pulling out anything that was evaporated into a mist?

With a lube oil CF running to clean engine oil, I'd think water is not a problem because the engine heat will boil off any moisture present, that would only be true if your engine is running at the proper temperature. Hotter the better up to a point.

new concept comes to light that may explain the increased mist or steam from very wet oil.

The bowl is just too small? Cup fills up with crud and water and looses efficency? Starts spitting water alone and or water laden oil out the jets therfore increasing the flash evaporation.

Problem as SunW points out is the more you allow it to use flash Ev as the water removal method the more you leave components of water soluble acids and salts behind in the oil.

hi welder,

i think i can contribute to your question regarding the level of dewatering using the SpinClean. i happen to be using the FF25 modal (next level above the entry level spinclean; the first modal is actually used on Land Rovers but there are added costs to using it because the a film of paper that needs to be constantly replaces.)

i chose the spinclean because in canadian and less expensive. it works great! oil is very very very dry.

the way i test for suspended water is i get a true/real skilet which are rare to find these days but i found one at salvation army for peanuts. in any case i heat the skillet to 350F and drop the oil; about 2-3oz buy my skillet is about 6 inches wide or the room temp oil does not reduce the heat of the pan on contact. after introducing the oil to the pan i see nothing!! the oil from costco generated more boubles than wvo filtered.

my setup is a bit different; i am using my vane pump instead of my gear pump so i use a furnace filter before the oil goes through the pump. i heat with 1 heater to 165F and run the centrifuge. i stop it every 3 hours to check for the dome and there was a thin layer of silt that is very runny. same results at the end. forget to mention that i dont use the cf at higher than 70psi.

thanks for your response on my thread i will going to the local auto parts store to get info on the gasket.

evan

quote:

Problem as SunW points out is the more you allow it to use flash Ev as the water removal method the more you leave components of water soluble acids and salts behind in the oil.

Despite my lack of experience, I have a theory that most water in WVO ran through CFs leaves the system via evaporation as the oil re-enters the tank at the top.

If I'm right then the fact that Suns' TDS tests indicate minimal contaminants in the WVO after processing would mean that that afer dehydration the hygroscopic crud is still heavier than WVO and these CFs are able to spin the crud out into the rotor quite well.

Just guessing...

quote:

i am using my vane pump instead of my gear pump

What are you planning to use your gear pump on?