quote:

quote:
"The only way you could get 55 gallons of oil dewatered and decontaminated in 15 minutes would be a very well tuned CF."
Hi Ron. Your wording seems a little strong (the ONLY way). I'm betting that there are petro refineries that can do 55 Gal in 1 minute.

Probably..but VO is not petroleum. I agree with Ron..and neither one of us sell centrifuges (which can do this) or centrifugal filters (which cannot).

quote:

ok, maybe im stupid, but i still do not get it.

are you saying if i presettle and only use the oil that is wet, but doesnt have the heavy junk in it, i should expect the upflow system to work for me?
the difference is presettling?

Yes...and the quality of the wvo you are starting with.

quote:

Originally posted by welder:

quote:

The only way you could get 55 gallons of oil dewatered and decontaminated in 15 minutes would be a very well tuned CF.

Hi Ron. Your wording seems a little strong (the ONLY way). I'm betting that there are petro refineries that can do 55 Gal in 1 minute. You don't sell DC CFs do you? (joking)

Hi welder,

I was intending the response in the frame of your desire to do 55 gallons in 15 minutes with an onboard system. Considering the size of an onboard system, I don't think you could de-water 55 gallons in 15 minutes without increasing gravity (i.e. a CF).

With greater size, There are other ways to do it but it wouldn't come close to fitting in my car (or basement). ;-)

ok. i think i got it now. this system is different from what i did because of the new oil being added , forcing the old oil out. and it is settled ,and has the heavy junk filtered, before going in.

as for if it will work on my oil, i wont know until i try .

i am going to try it, because not using electricity is very attractive to me, because i dont have an easy way to get electricity to where i will be processing the oil.

in one way, i hope it doesnt work. because after seeing the way some of you have treated john galt, im afraid to agree with him.
you guys play rough.

thanks for the help.

ron that was me that wanted the onboard shizzle not welder.
and just you wait, because i'm gonna do it. i haven't been able to build a thing yet because i'm visiting the folks down south.
so dana how does your system work? or is it secret? i understand if you just want to make money. everybody does..

"the whole world's operatin offa cash money"

hehehe aww yeah this here is the wvo school of hard knocks apparently. i like john though. john you like me, right? i respect your system and i'm only needling y'all so that i can maybe learn from other people's experiences before trying my own stuff. but yeah especially at the beginning of this thread there were some tards posting. it is an online forum, after all.

STFU, n00B!!

quote:

Originally posted by 95ram:
ok, maybe im stupid, but i still do not get it.

are you saying if i presettle and only use the oil that is wet, but doesnt have the heavy junk in it, i should expect the upflow system to work for me?
the difference is presettling?

i have read the discussion from the beginning several times. i have even cut and pasted it to notepad and saved it. i saved the pic to paint so i can view it easier.

i just want to make sure i do not need to change anything in the design to get it to work with the oil, and at the temp, i will be using it at.

Hi 95Ram,

John is presettling his oil in cubies before he runs it thru the upflow settling. I am not. I dump my oil into the system as soon as I get it and bring it home. I do not store unprocessed oil more than a few days.

The settling in cubies and his particular oil supply is probably why John gets dry enough oil without heat.

Usually, I dump the first bucket of oil into my upflow settling system as soon as I get home with the waste oil. I put one more bucket in each day mostly because that is convenient. I have put in 4 buckets a day for a number of days in a row and still got good dry oil.

The only prefiltering that I do is a pasta strainer to get out the chunks as the oil is being poured in.

At the same temperature, dumping 5 gallons a day for 10 days into an almost empty 55 gallon upflow settling drum won't give you much better oil than dumping 50 gallons into a drum and letting it set for 10 days before drawing off the top 5 gallons but adding 5 gallons to a upflow settling drum on the 11th day will give you 5 more gallons of well settled oil where adding 5 more gallons to a regular settling drum will just stir up the regular settling drum.

A number of factor determine the temperature that you will need for upflow settling (or any settling for that matter) to work in a "reasonable" amount of time.

1. what and how much contaminants are in the oil.

2. the oils viscosity.

3. the ratio of the volume of the settling tank to the volume per day of waste oil you are running thru the system.

4. the size and density of the contaminants.

5. convection of filling currents.

If the oil is too thick, or the contaminants are too small, or the tank volume is too small, etc. then the contaminants will not settle out enough in a "reasonable" amount of time.

For a given system, to a point, higher temperatures if you don't increase convection currents will reduce the settling time needed.

Most oils if you don't presettle need to be heated. I heat my oil settling tank to about 100 degrees VERY EVENLY.

I have found the shape of the settling tank makes very little effect on the effectiveness of upflow settling. I even went to the extreme of a 4" diameter 20 foot tall settling tank. Tall thin tanks are less effected by convection currents but harder to heat. Short stubby tanks are more effected by stiring up of contaminants when oil is added. 1.5 to 2 times taller than the diameter seems to be the best compromise.

I lost track of WVO miles on a single vehicle but my Audi (VW engine) had at least 75,000 waste oil miles on it befor my sister totaled it and the Isuze had over 100,000 WVO miles on it when it was too rusty and beat up nto still safely drive but the engine was still in excelent shape.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ron Schroeder,

quote:

Originally posted by 95ram:
ok. i think i got it now. this system is different from what i did because of the new oil being added , forcing the old oil out. and it is settled ,and has the heavy junk filtered, before going in.

as for if it will work on my oil, i wont know until i try .

i am going to try it, because not using electricity is very attractive to me, because i dont have an easy way to get electricity to where i will be processing the oil.

I don't use much electricity. With the insulation, my whole system uses less electricity than a 60 watt light bulb. And that electricity is solar generated :-)

Wow. This thread has great info. Thanks for the work you all do to make it available.

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
Usually, I dump the first bucket of oil into my upflow settling system as soon as I get home with the waste oil.

Ron: does your system look basically like John Galt's diagram? If you already posted details, I missed it. I'm wondering how big the first vessel is that you dump into?

My space is limited. The settling drum, filter and one of my two storage tanks is under the basement stairs but it gives me enough oil to heat the house, heat hot water and run several cars.

thanks Ron Schroeder.

i am going to try the settling, no heat, way first. if it fails, thanks for giving me some other ideas i can try.

quote:

Probably..but VO is not petroleum. I agree with Ron..and neither one of us sell centrifuges (which can do this) or centrifugal filters (which cannot).

I'm aware of the somewhat different physical properties comparing wvo to crude petro, but I gotta figure that the multi trillion dollar petro industry can likely see refinery methods that you can't. Something like an actively heated bank of high pressure bag filters and a vacuum assisted flash evaporator could be a viable alternative to a CF.

A CF isn't the ONLY way.

One point I would like to make for all NEW Greasers:

Before you convert or purchase a converted vehicle, make sure you have clean oil in storage.

Before you set up your cleaning/filtering/de-watering station you need to read, read, read.

My best advice, tho, is to find other greasers in your area. NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK! There may be other experienced Greasers in your area that you can gain vast knowledge and experience from. Also, there is no better way to start than to join a local co-op of other greasers.

Two years ago when I first started I searched for others that may be here in San Diego. I found one that had posted on the Frybrid forum looking for others a long time before me, so contacted him, then posted on every forum I could find to invite all greasers in the San Diego area to contact me. We started meeting each month and now two years later we have over 80 Greasers here in San Diego County. In July we passed the 50 mark, so 30 more have found us since then, with more added almost every week. There are a lot of us out there, so go find them.

Right now is San Diego we have 6 active co-ops throughout the county, with more wanting to start up additional "community" stations. This way, those who do not have room, or the skills to do it all can help with what they can do.

As for the oil, most try to collect only liquid oil. I have heat in my system, so I can clean the thickest, nastiest oil you can imagine. I start with heating the batch (7 or 8 cubies - 35 or so gal) to 140*f or so, then start the mistwash, usually 2 to 4 hours at 15gal/hr, depending on how nasty the oil was. Once clean water is exhaused, I stop the mistwash, then leave the heaters on until the oil exceeded 140*f again, then let settle from 1 to 4 days (depending on my enery levels and need for more clean oil). I gravity filter from the top through a 1 micron filter until I see any contaminates, then stop. The one micron filter will last me many, many batches. The rest I drain from the bottom of the drum into cubies. I allow any oil left in the cubies to seperate so I can recover it for another batch. The point is that with heat, time, and WATER I can clean the nastest oil you can find and get it clean enough, and dry enough, to compare to those who only collect the best oil they can find and use lots of filters. This is not rocket science here. It is so easy to do.

Time is your friend here. All oil will seperate and float to the top. Just look at your salad dressing in the refrigerator. You have to shake it up every time you use it.

* Heat will speed up the time.
* A Centrifuge will speed up the time.
* Using an upflow system with one, two, or three drums will give you more time.

But by far, the easiest way to get into the oil business is to partner up with one of us who have already invested the time, money, and oil-spills to know what we are doing. I, for one, am happy to share oil and knowledge to new ones, and I am sure almost all of the others are also.

*** Side note, anyone in San Diego, CA who is not on our network list are welcomed to contact me.

Sorry to write so much, but wanted to get this out to the new ones. I am currently building a two drum upflow system, very much like John's design, for a fellow greasers here in San Diego who collects only liquid oil. She has lots of room and wants to have a co-op station at her place. My design uses a removable top so I can put an elbow on the down flow tube in each drum (each about 10 inches from the bottom), and a plastic bucket with screw on lid (contained clorine tablets from a pool cleaning buddy) for the input side with both a window screen and jean bag for the oil to pass through before entering the drum. It will hold more than one cubie, so the speed of filtering will be the speed that the bucket drains into the drum, then another cubie can be poured into the bucket. It will be solar heated so should be enough heat. The pump off the second drum will be a Harbor Freignt hand crank, through an in-line polishing filter, then the filler nozzle. If she can get others to join the co-op, then they can purchase a 12v pump to do this part. The suction tube should be at least 20 inches off the bottom, and if the volum of oil increases, we can add a third drum and pull from closer to the bottom of it. Or we could set up a floating pick-up so we are always pulling from the top. In the last drum there is the need for an air tube so the air can escape as more oil is added.

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so dana how does your system work? or is it secret? or is it secret? i understand if you just want to make money. everybody does..

Everyone has to make a living...and I make my living as a VO conversion consultant. That of course also includes WVO/SVO fuel processing.

The larger processing systems I have developed ARE proprietary so while not "secret" they are not available for free. And the profits from the "how to file" prefilter/dewatering units go entirely to supporting R&D of better DIY VO conversion components. They have also been copied and modified by many, many DIY experimenters.

I understand you wanting all info to be free...but that probably isn't possible. I share a LOT of info for free...but not everything.

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especially at the beginning of this thread there were some tards posting. it is an online forum, after all.
STFU, n00B!!

Not appropriate IMO.

quote:

I'm aware of the somewhat different physical properties comparing wvo to crude petro, but I gotta figure that the multi trillion dollar petro industry can likely see refinery methods that you can't. Something like an actively heated bank of high pressure bag filters and a vacuum assisted flash evaporator could be a viable alternative to a CF.

A CF isn't the ONLY way.

No...but given the stated limitations it is the most practical in several circumstaces..including dewatering 55 gallons in 15 minutes on a DIY budget.

dana i'm sorry if my message seemed inappropriate to you but i meant it in all lightheartedness. and true "tard" is not such a good word. but someone earlier in the thread was being very ignorant and an as$ to john so i think your sentiment is misdirected.

quote:

Originally posted by welder:
I'm aware of the somewhat different physical properties comparing wvo to crude petro, but I gotta figure that the multi trillion dollar petro industry can likely see refinery methods that you can't. Something like an actively heated bank of high pressure bag filters and a vacuum assisted flash evaporator could be a viable alternative to a CF.

A CF isn't the ONLY way.

Hi welder,

Don't forget that flash evaporators don't remove water solluble contaminants and they use a lot of energy. That's why I stoped using them many years ago.

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There was never any chance that I would pile on the personal insults because I'm a christian and that is not my way.

Well you have to admit that your posts are somewhat abrasive. Needlessly so IMO...but perhaps I am not qualified to judge.

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What I want to know are more details on how you seperate the minute floating water particles that are suspended in the wvo because these simply do not drop out by settling in our systems. The hot pan test will always show small bubbles.

This was my experience as well until I used only lightly contaminated wvo and presettled for a long time at an adequate temp (to completely liquify) the target portion of the wvo being processed. I think that this is essentailly what John has said previously.

John..you have said that you don't heat your upflow processor. But I know it must be warmer than the ambient outside temp where you live. What temp do you estimate the wvo begin processed is during presettling and processing?

froggo,

I have been using upflow settling for over 25 years with waste oil but I wouldn't say it is "Dated" since it works so well. If impplimented properly it can give very dry oil. I have had my oil tested many times by different methods including the ASTM diesel fuel test and Karl Fischer method and it has never failed. The hot pan test shows no bubbles after processing but even though my oil comes directly from the fryer, it does show bubbles before the (heated) upflow settling.

I have not been satisfied with the results with it's use when un-heated with some oils, but with proper heat, I have not found any other method that does as good of a job with the same or less energy, cost or effort. I have even used it to get good fuel out of Lard that I had to shovel out of a rain filled grease dumpster.

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
I dump in everything but since my tank is heated (very evenly)....

You state "heated (very evenly)" in this thread a few times. What method/material have you found to "evenly" heat your drum? If it is already covered elsewhere feel free to just link to it.

Thanx in advance.

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I assume that your comment about your ability to judge was not a religious slur?

quote:

I Only became abrasive when treated thus.

Oh..ok..that justifies it. Never mind. Like I said..I'm am probably not qualified to judge whether posts are unneccesarily abrasive.

I did try to answer your questions in a friendly and civil manner. I am not trying to attack you or make you feel unwelcome. Sorry you misunderstood. I don't think you are a bad guy"...nor do I think John is. Just different styles of communicatin I guess.

Sorry for taking this off topic. I did not anticipate that would happen from such a small part of my post. Just forget I said anything.

Thanks Dana for the words, I am sorry if i have been rude to you and John that was not my intention.

The extra info provided by John and yourself on the upflow system that we use, John mentioned that his wvo gets very cold.

John if your wvo is left to settle over winter as you say, when the water particles freeze do you think this helps seperate the suspended water from the oil resulting in better settling?

thanks froggo.