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Member |
If the temperature is above 50°F then the PHO and animal fats won't separate out. In your hot climate this probably isn't a problem. If you're making BD then the bag filter isn't necessary.
--.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .- ..- - .... --- .-. .. - -.-- '89 Toyota 3.4L TDI + FPHE BD+ULSD+VO+JetB blends |
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member 2009 Sponsor |
Hi John,
Thank you for your reply. So when you say that the PHO and animal fats wont separate out, does that mean that they will get pushed into the 2nd barrel? I'm sorry if that is a dumb question, but I'm still learning If it matters, I should have stated that the type of oil I get is rice bran and soybean oil from a Japanese restaurant that cooks alot of tempura type fried foods (light flour) as well as tonkatsu (panko bread crumbs). So it is not necessary to filter out lower than your door screen + panty hose method? I have 200 and 100 micron bucket filters. |
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Hi Bob, What software did you use to make those nice clear diagrams? |
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Correct, at warm temperatures they are dissolved in the clear oil.
not if you're making BD I suspect that the oil you've got has little or no PHO and animal fats, depending on what they're cooking. --.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .- ..- - .... --- .-. .. - -.-- '89 Toyota 3.4L TDI + FPHE BD+ULSD+VO+JetB blends |
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member 2009 Sponsor |
John,
Ok, I think I got it. Since my oil is pretty clean to start with, is not a partially hydrogenated oil, and is a plant based oil, I'm good to go. However, and here's the light bulb moment for me, if it was PHO and/or had animal fats as part of its ingredient, it would be absolutely necessary that the ideal conditions (65F) existed...right? One thing that does concern me though is that they cook fried pork in there. Perhaps on occassion, fried beef. But making BD should take care of it, right? This is all so cool. Thanks for being patient and helpful, John  Mac99: i used adobe photoshop, but you might get just as decent results with ms powerpoint too bob |
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Member |
That temperature or lower to settle out the PHO & Fats, but only if you were running an unheated VO-ULSD mix like I am. If you have a heated VO fuel system, or are making BD, then it's not an issue.
Just let your cold weather BD settle in a poly barrel and pump your fuel from the top 3/4. That way any higher melt point fat/PHO BD settles out in the barrel not in the vehicle fuel system. Glad to help... --.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .- ..- - .... --- .-. .. - -.-- '89 Toyota 3.4L TDI + FPHE BD+ULSD+VO+JetB blends |
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member 2009 Sponsor |
Hi John,
I had some hiccups and things to take care of at home and on the car since my original post in July. I've actually started to gather up all the parts now. Revisiting my post above, it seems that living in a hot climate won't affect the cold upflow process if: a) if there is NO animal fat or the oil is not a PHO type of oil b) if the oil will be used in a heated WVO system To make 100% sure, since I am using plant based oils that are not PHOs, the upflow process will still work and push up the good, dry oil from the 1st barrel into the 2nd barrel, right? About using the jean leg filter: I figured that I might as well try to remove as many of the particulates as possible. Wouldn't that be more beneficial to the end BD product to do so? Also, I thought about building one and putting this outside in our backyard. The temp swings will vary widely. I am afraid that in the summer, the barrels will get hot and in the evenings, there will be condensation on the inside of the barrels. As far as you know, is this a problem with putting upflow systems outside? I would figure this is a good reason not to put one outside. What do you think? Thanks, Bob |
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Member |
If you're using a heated fuel system in a hot climate, then the separation of the PHO and fats isn't necessary.
Some have reported that a hot upflow system requires longer settling times to get dry oil.
In the diagrams you posted at the top of this page, I don't see any sort of upflow system. cold upflow diagram I found that a canvas pre-filter above the upflow input barrel clogged rapidly and made it difficult to fill the upper input barrel without constant attention. With my bug screen/pantyhose prefilter I can directly empty two cubies into the upper input barrel then let the new oil slowly enter the upflow barrel by controlling the flow with the valve on the upflow output.
My processing is in an unheated outside shed, but I live in a cold dry climate, so I don't have that problem. I suspect that one would want to avoid any condensation forming inside barrels of fuel by keeping them full or sealed closed. --.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .- ..- - .... --- .-. .. - -.-- '89 Toyota 3.4L TDI + FPHE BD+ULSD+VO+JetB blends |
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Member |
Hi Bob, I too am using plant based oils with no PHO, but..........there is a lot of fat in my oil. Basically, the oil has to be cool enough for the fat or PHO to be at least cloudy to settle out. If the oil is warm enough for the fat or PHO to be clear, they won't settle out, only the water and particulates will settle at that temperature. The advantage of warmer temperatures is faster water and particulate settling due to lower viscosity. Excessive temperature CHANGES or UNEVENESS are killers for any settling system, no matter what the type of settling system. Even sun hitting one side of a barrel and not the other side can cause enough convection currents to prevent suspended water from settling. If you can't control the temperature, then at least minimize the swings with insulation. On your first drawing, are you filling drum #1 from a raised reservoir above the system thru a standpipe leading to near the bottom of the first drum? Ron '85 300D '83 300D Since '80 former WVO conversions: '83 240D '80 Audi 4000D '83 Isuzu Pup '86 Golf '76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine Several generators Kubota Tractor |
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member 2009 Sponsor |
Hi John and Ron,
Thanks again for your reply. In my 1st original diagram, I neglected to draw the input feed container into the first 55 gal barrel. I plan to attached the exhaust pipe and a metal 5 gal pail I have to the top of the 1st barrel. There will be ball valves in certain pipes to regulate flow. I may add some drain valves too Even though I'm planning to make BD out of my oil, I don't consume much on a weekly basis, so it would be nice to utilize that time to do some extra filtering into a 2nd barrel, hence my design which I updated in the pic below:  I'm going to build this over this weekend or next to see what the results will turn out. I'm somewhat skeptical it will work out in the summer months, but I might as well do it now while the climate is nice and cool here in So Cal. I have a lot of well settled oil, some even as old as 9 months now that has been sitting well sealed in a storage/settling barrel (wife hates having all those cubies around!). I'll do some boil off water testing as well as some hot pan testing too. I plan to do these two tests before I put the oil into the green input barrel and then on the results when it enters the plastic 35 gal barrel. |
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As shown on your diagram, oil won't drain from the input barrel below the top level of the 2nd barrel. The first barrel should be even or higher than the 2nd. I wouldn't recommend pumping from the bottom of the 2nd barrel, pumping from the upper 3/4s would be better.
There is no need for the valve at the bottom of the input barrel, the valve on the output will adequately regulate the flow. The tube from the bottom of the input barrel must go to near the bottom of the upflow barrel; as shown in the diagram the oil will short circuit out across the top. --.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .- ..- - .... --- .-. .. - -.-- '89 Toyota 3.4L TDI + FPHE BD+ULSD+VO+JetB blends |
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Bob,
Just raise the input barrel so it's bottom is somewhat above the cross-over pipe between the two barrels. Personally, I would have the bottom of the input barrel equal to the input barrel's height or more above the cross-over (~18" or more for a 5 gallon input barrel) to maintain flow to within about 30% as the input barrel goes from full to empty. Ron '85 300D '83 300D Since '80 former WVO conversions: '83 240D '80 Audi 4000D '83 Isuzu Pup '86 Golf '76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine Several generators Kubota Tractor |
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After using a upflow system for two years I have changed to a different system. Now I just have three steel barrels with the tops cut out and covers for them. I just pump from #1 to #2 to #3 but only the top 2/3 amount. By the time I am ready to move the oil I need from #3 to either the 'fuge or bd reactor I have clean and dry fuel. Every now and then I pump the bottom 1/3 of #3 back into #1. Since I don't run the oil right out of the last barrel into a vehicle the system works faster for me. I like the cut out tops because I can muck out the bottoms easily when needed and that stuff goes to the barrel that belongs to the render guys.
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Guys,
i am setting up an upflow system right now and I think Id like to go with a heated setup like Ron's. I currently have a cold upflow system set up, but I would like to burn the PHO. Ive read through how Ron uses ice melt wire for even heat. How can I regulate temperature with a PID or equivalent without drilling a hole in the side of my drum for a thermocouple?? Of course, I already have some oil in the drum, so emptying it, washing it, welding on it and drying it would be unpleasant... Ideas? Are there 'stick on' thermocouples?? Mike 150L batch GL Processor *now online and producing* '82 and '85 M-B 300D's |
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Just attach the end of the thermocouple to the side of the tank with some metal type putty or similar. All it has to do is transfer the temp of the tank to the thermocouple.
Evenn if it's out a degree or 2, it should be constant and you can adjust your controller to compensate. It's not like you need a reading accurate to 1/10th of a degree. **** * 1978 Merc 300D. Running Blend and 2 tank system with Home Made HE and water injection. |
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If you are doing this outside, you also need to consider what animals might be getting to it. The like oil, so you need to limit access.
1984 Volvo 240 Elsbett 1 tank/glow plugs/injector nozzles/FPHE/fuel filter heater system, block heater, ILH 20%Kero, 80%WVO winter blend |
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Thank you, great point. 150L batch GL Processor *now online and producing* '82 and '85 M-B 300D's |
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So, what do you think it would take to set up an upflow for like 1500 gallons a month? Using 275 totes and centrifuging multi pass finally.
I'm thinking using 4 totes total, what sizes you guys think are necessary for high flow. Doesn't have to be perfect just enough to centrifuge finally. |
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Cascade as many upflow cells as necessary so that the oil coming off the top of the last cell is as clean and dry as one wants.
--.- ..- . ... - .. --- -. / .- ..- - .... --- .-. .. - -.-- '89 Toyota 3.4L TDI + FPHE BD+ULSD+VO+JetB blends |
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