Up till now those travelling long distances have had to rely mainly on luck when it comes to getting prefiltered/dewatered wvo fuel. Several attempts have been made to set up "wvo sharing" websites and lists. While helpful these have tended to br pretty "hit and miss" when it comes to assuring that individuals travelling long distances can be certain that they will be able to procure enough prefiltered/dewatered wvo along the way to make it to their destination.

I would like to help set up a network of VO refuelling "stations" beginning at key points along the US interstate highway system. These will be independent but affilliated re-fuelling points that would sell wvo which meets a set standard for prefiltering, dewatering, and maximum pour point(8 micron nominal/500ppm/40°F). The WVO available at these "WVO depots" will be spot checked on a regular basis to insure that these standard are being rigorously adhered to. From my experience producing large quantities of WVO meeting these standards is relatively easy.

WVO will be "pre-purchased" through a central paypal website so individual customers can be assured that the needed fuel will be available when they arrive to refill their tank. Simple and cheap technology will allow customers to access pre-purchased fuel without requiring the station owners to constantly be present thereby keeping overhead to a minimum. Those owners will be independent and able to negotiate a price which they and potential customers feel is fair.

The most strategic points to initially site these stations would be near where major N/S routes meet major E/W ones. This will create a network with stations 300-600 miles apart in the center of the country on the routes for those that can haul .

Memphis, Oklahoma City, and Albuquerque on I 40
Indianapolis, St. Louis, Kansa City, and Denver on I 70
Cleveland, Chicago, Omaha, Cheyenne, and Salt Lake City on I 80
and
St. Paul, Fargo, Glendive, Butte, and Spokane on I 94/90

This would at least allow those going across the USA to be able to be confident they would have fuel awating them at regular intervals along the route.

Eventually it would probably fill out to something like this


Is anyone interested in participating in this.
If so let's discuss the concept in more detail.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: danalinscott,

you should put an ad on craig list ... that is where I have found a lot of wvo on the road.
I think there was a web site for sale that you may want to look at http://www.greasemyride.com/ ... just a thought

good luck with the project

Omar
www.omarsales.com

quote:

Originally posted by Omar:
you should put an ad on craig list ... that is where I have found a lot of wvo on the road.
I think there was a web site for sale that you may want to look at http://www.greasemyride.com/ ... just a thought

good luck with the project

Omar
www.omarsales.com

Thanks Omar,

I am aware of all the website that attempt to link up those that need WVO for fuel with those that have a bit extra. In fact I was one of the originators of that idea many years ago on this very forum. But the problems with that concept have proven themselves out in the many interveneing attepts to improve it. The two main ones being quality and availability.

Wouldn't it be nice to be absolutely certain that there is ALWAYS an easily accessable source of high quality wvo fuel near ones route when travelling cross country? I am looknig for individuals who are interested in taking part in a long term legitimate business activity. Craigs list is probably not the best place to advertise for that.

Hello Dana,

the idea you put forward is very attractive. Could be a model for Canada , too.

Are you planning to be the man in the background ?
The coordinator without a address nor a telephone to reach ?
When I tried to establish a business relationship with you I was told that you do not see any need to come forward with a “ real” address nor did you see the need to pass your telephone number.
IMHO that was not what I wanted.
I had very different opinions and freely provided my personal / company information.
Has your opinion changed and how ?
I wish you good luck for your project.
Best regards

BMW Fan

I think it is a great idea but how who is going to be spot checking the oil to insure it meets accpetable standards? I would like to see this include Canada as well.

how about we start with how much money someone will have to come up with to start one legal(most legal) station? I'm trying to do this in California right now and it just seems prohibitive.

quote:

Originally posted by simone0414:
I think it is a great idea but how who is going to be spot checking the oil to insure it meets accpetable standards? I would like to see this include Canada as well.

I see no reason no reason that Canada cannot be included.
Care to suggest the most strategic place the initial depots could be located at in our northern neighbor?

Fuel quality checks can be easily conducted by "secret customers" testing sample they purchase, by requesting that regular customers send in samples to a central testing lab..or both.

quote:

how about we start with how much money someone will have to come up with to start one legal(most legal) station? I'm trying to do this in California right now and it just seems prohibitive.

This will surely vary from state to state...and California may be one of the hardest/most expensive to do it in. This is one of the reasons I suggest begining in the center of the US and THEN to the coasts. You most likely have a better handle on the cost in California than I do. In some states the start up cost (for someone who has spare prefiltered/dewatered wvo) could be under $1000. Frankly I think that the best option may be to form small gathering/processing co-ops. This might allow the start up cost to be for a central distribution depot (that sells surplus WVO fuel to the public) to be less for the individuals than if they each simply tried to process their own personal fuel seperately.

quote:

Are you planning to be the man in the background ?

Currently it appears that I am the man in the FORGROUND as no one else seems to be interested in taking on such a project.

quote:

When I tried to establish a business relationship with you I was told that you do not see any need to come forward with a “ real” address nor did you see the need to pass your telephone number.

I am sorry that decision offended you Klaus.
That was not my intention.

quote:

I wish you good luck for your project.

Thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by simone0414:
I think it is a great idea but how who is going to be spot checking the oil to insure it meets accpetable standards? I would like to see this include Canada as well.

I see no reason no reason that Canada cannot be included.
Care to suggest the most strategic place the initial depots could be located at in our northern neighbor?

Well I guess at least one in each province located near a major city & near the transCanada highway would be a start. You could branch out to other locations in each province.

Are you looking to setup somehow at service stations or some other location?

quote:

Are you looking to setup somehow at service stations or some other location?

They will not be at existing service stations.

Sorry for the typo. I meant to type "places" .... as in specific Canadian Cities.

Well how about major cities in each province:

Halifax
St. John
Montreal
Toronto
Winnipeg
Calagary
Regina
Victoria

That would be a start.

Moving forward ...
Since these will be operated as individual businesses and
in my experience (nearly 40 years) the best way to start a business is to have a well formulated business plan that incorporates progressive investment let's "knock around" the idea of how one might go about setting up a "VO-Depot" using the following criteria.
(if anyone want to suggest additional criteria please do so)


It must be legal.
It must be of very low cost initially...but easily expandable to meet demand.
It must be sufficiently profitable to assure regular and reliable operation.

The first issue (legality) is probably the most difficult.
Having a central organization should make it much simpler however.
And by keeping initial depots very simple and inexpensive the cost of putting one in "stasis" while any unexpected compliance issues are resolved might be critical. SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for state or federal agencies that come to believe a business is operating in violation of the existing law or regulation is to send a notice of violation AND a Cease and Desist order. This has the effect of placing the owner of such a business at a disadvantage in any subsequent negotiations with the agency. Eliminating that potential disadvantage provides for much better outcomes.

The laws and regulations which effect nearly any business are dynamic..constantly changing. Consequently if a business owner is not (or cannot) anticipate those changes the business will be much less rewarding (both financially and otherwise). I do not think that it is possible to anticipate those changes in this particualr case. So those two criteria are linked in a very important way. At least initially. The initial "stations" will probably initiate a "sorting out" of what existing laws/regulations each state wished to apply...and the Feds will (at some point) also choose to apply any regulations they feel are needed.

It is pretty obvious that the intent is to sell WVO as fuel.
Thre are no State laws I am aware of that prohibit that. But should the EPA choose (or be forced) to apply the CAA "clean fuel" provisions the cost of compliance would be prohibitive. I believe that the wisest choice would be for the owners of these depots to lobby for a short term exemption on the federal level to the CAA and apply for grants to cover(at least part of)the cost of eventual testing that might be required to comply with it. It might be possible to operate "under the radar" for a short time..but I believe it is unwise to do so since the investment in these depots will be greater as time goes on and demand increases.

We might be able to wink at each other and say "we are only selling waste fryer oil" but winking at a state official or jusdge just does not seem to work very well. With a few exceptions most states WANT to actively encourage sustainable (renewable/carbon neutral) fuel development. BUT...they want the tax due on such activity. So..paying state fuel tax is unavoidable IF the state is to become a "partner" in this endeavor. And we WANT them as partners when it comes to eventually dealing with the EPA. I also do nto think that it is possible to pay state fuel tax and avoid Federal fuel tax. However..some of those costs are recoverable...and some can be passed on to the consumer. Please do not bring the "tax is evil" side discussion in. In order to stay legal we must comply with the tax laws. Philosophy/politics is not an issue which applys here. It is just business.

OK..so what is the most inexpensive way to set up a VO-Depot that allows customers to pre-purchase product AND yet not have to be present when the customer pulls in to pick it up? A tank with a pump and card reader would be nice (and eventually the volume and profit may warrent this) but initially a much simpler option is wiser (IMO). I suggest something more similar to how retail sales of filled 25# LP tanks is more appropriate (initially) than the gas station model. Blue Rhino is one of the largest such operations in the US currently but there are several competitors in the "LP Depot" market. This would be the basic model for the initial stations. Instead of 25# LP tanks the units would be the ubiquitous (and free) 35# cubee units that VO is currently distributed in.

Let's imagine the scenario of a travelling "greaser" using this simple (and cheap) initial depot service.
1. They go online prior to (or during) their trip and go to the "VO-Depot" website to find fuel depots near where they will be travelling.
2. Using the interactive map there they click on the depots they want to purchase fuel from. Here they can see how much will be available on the date they choose and are directed to the paypal account of each station they click on.
3. They decide how many #35 cubess they anticipate needing at each depot and pay for them using a credit card or Paypal debit account. A refundable deposit for each (empty) cubee is also included.
4. Within 24 hours they receive an email receipt with the location (map)of the depots they have purchased fuel from and the combination of the lock on the "cage" in which their WVO will be awaiting them.
5. Arriving at the depot they pull up in front of the "cage"..open it using the combination..and either transfer the full cubees to their trunk (replacing them with empty cubees if they have them) or pour the WVO directly into their tank using the specially designed funnel provided.
6. They re-lock the "cage" and continue on their way.
7. When the depot owner replaces the empty cubees with full ones the next day the deposit is refunded via Paypal.

Transaction completed...

The cages will probably look more like small metal sheds..and will need to be insulated (and possibly heated) during the cold season(s) in most areas.

I suggest using Paypal for a variety of reasons which I am happy to discuss if anyone has questions.
Basically it just makes the whole process (from sales to bookeeping to paying taxes) simpler.

The third criteria will be established by estimate initially..and by looking at the actual sales/cost ratio after a few months provide an indication of what the actual growth ratio appears to be. As profitability is established the level of further investment (in larger capacity and more sophisticated Depot equipment) can be evaluated.

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:

quote:

When I tried to establish a business relationship with you I was told that you do not see any need to come forward with a “ real” address nor did you see the need to pass your telephone number.

I am sorry that decision offended you Klaus.
That was not my intention.

I doubt he was as offended as he was being careful with his money. If someone wanted me to go into a business with them but wouldn't provide legitimate contact details, I'd be as suspect as hell also.

quote:

Currently no one else seems to be interested in taking on such a project.

Can't begin to think why??

Whilst your concept is very idealistic, the notion of setting up an alternate fuel infrastructure is going to so fraught with complications and red tape, it will never see the light of day... especially when the person behind the idea dosen't want to be traceable.

This whole scheme is going to fly like a brick!

quote:

the notion of setting up an alternate fuel infrastructure is going to so fraught with complications and red tape, it will never see the light of day

It WILL undoubtedly involve dealing with a multitude of state and federal tax and environmental agencies as well as some lobbying of state..and possibly federal legislatures. That does not render this project impossible either however.

Speaking as someone with nearly 40 years of business experience ...every business venture has "complications and red tape" to deal with. This does not make such ventures impossible...just more difficult than the average person has the experience and/or will to deal with.

quote:

If someone wanted me to go into a business with them but wouldn't provide legitimate contact details,

You misunderstand.
He approached me...not the other way around.
I saw no reason to provide more contact info so a "deal" I had no interest in could move forward.

Sanimax Corp is a restaurant grease recycler in the Midwest and Canada that also produces biodiesel at their plant near Madison, WI. They would be interested in selling and distributing used cooking oil or any other feedstock they handle as fuel, if they can make more money doing so. If you kind of recognize the name, it is a blend of the name Sanimal and the WI based company Anamax, which the Canadian Sanimal bought 2 years ago.

The original Anamax Corp had processing and collection centers in various locations because of the many factors that limit geographical expansion for companies that do this kind of trash collection work. The trucks don't have sleepers so it's out and back at the end of the day for the crew, with as much product as possible.

Sanimax wasn't the first rendering company to get into biodiesel production, but I think they are doing it better than anyone else. This is probably because they didn't rush in to it. They sat on the sidelines and watched for a while, learning the do's and don't's on their competitors' dime.

This is just more evidence that a WVO fuel distribution service would have to start as a regional project, which would be expanded by the originator or copied by a competitor, not geographically, but regionally. Entirely new distribution 'hubs' would either have to be built, or existing facilities owned by the rendering giants who currently OWN all the veg-oil we are trying to get our hands on, would have to be established, which would work independently of each other.

So if anyone on this forum is interested in actually doing any of this instead of theorizing about it all day, the first thing to do would be to write up a list of questions and ideas to use monday morning when you call your local waste oil recycling company and pitch them on the idea. Then hop back on to this page and let us know how it went.

Truth News. www.infowardocs.org

Hi everyone,

while this seems like a good idea to get wvo when you are on a trip, all this will do is take wvo away from the backyard operator.

One of the reasons we can get wvo free/cheap to use as fuel is due to low demand/time required.

Take away the work to collect/filter/dewater the wvo and there is no stopping it becoming a comercial fuel.

So you think it's hard to get wvo now, wait until one of these open up in your area and your daily supply is under threat for someone elses fun road trip.

This action will also get the attention of the big players who will want their cut.

This is all good for people who want to make money from wvo.

If they want to do this it will be a hard costly road so the rewards will be deserved.

God bless froggo.

hmmmm -- competition for WVO ...

Fuel prices are going up again.

We have a lot of players in the Pacific Northwest (USA).

We have General Biodiesel here in Seattle, along with other usual suspects (large rendering companies), then you have the folks collecting wvo or biodiesel for their own use. Then I ran into a guy that collects for a cosmetic company!!!! Anyway, we will see how this all plays out--should be fun...
Omar
www.omarsales.com

I've mentioned this on other threads a lot, but wvo/yellow grease prices are extremely high right now. Just settled down to 28 cents per pound from a week-long climb to 29. That's over $2 per gallon for animal feed. That, unfortunately or fortunately, is what a fuel distribution service would have to compete with. Add fuel tax and you're close to or over where diesel is right now. Yipes.

Source: Usda Report

quote:

... wvo/yellow grease prices are extremely high right now. ..Add fuel tax and you're close to or over where diesel is right now..

quote:

Originally posted by danalinscott:

quote:

the notion of setting up an alternate fuel infrastructure is going to so fraught with complications and red tape, it will never see the light of day

It WILL undoubtedly involve dealing with a multitude of state and federal tax and environmental agencies as well as some lobbying of state..and possibly federal legislatures.

every business venture has "complications and red tape" to deal with. This does not make such ventures impossible...just more difficult than the average person has the experience and/or will to deal with.

You are in fact trying to set up a venture that will compete directly and take money from the oil companies. As these people have considerable influence in all levels of government, this is where is see your main obstacles coming from. There is a good chance they will let you do what you please until they determine that there is some detriment to them, be it the fact you are taking money out of their pockets or just the fact you may make it to easy for people to do veg in removing the work that it is normally associated with and have people start asking questions they don't want to answer .

No Industry/ business will idly stand by and let the competition get a foot hold without doing all they can to undermine it and put a stop to the opposition before it gets started. No matter what good you will be doing, I think you are going to be up against insurmountable influence, power and money they are not going to want to know about all the positive aspects others will see.

As mentioned, fuel prices will have a huge influence on this. Whilst I am sure they will go up, the question will be by how much and for how long. If they don't go up enough, people won't be bothered with this. If they go up but don't stay up long enough to allow the interested parties to get some infrastructure set up, then again demand will wain before anything ( that the oil companies allow) gets off the ground.

There also seems to me to be a catch 22 between having enough people using Veg to make the idea feasible and then once the critical mass is established, if there will be enough oil to satisfy their needs?

You'll certainly need your 40 years business experience with this project, I can't imagine a more ambitious undertaking.