omar: Have you made one of these, or has anyone else? This seems like such a kick ass concept, reusing the old parts, and cheap too! That site is german and isn't going to be all too relative on where to get parts from here in the states, haha. However, where is the top part, (the oil inlet/outlet) located on an engine (what kind), the coolant inlet/outlet (where is that piece located? Also, that middle sleeve looking thing, half threaded with an o-ring, where would we get that at?

I can't even tell what the hell that is in your picture, are you driving throug fog or snow?


Joe: I'm sure there is a reason that people do not use crankcase oil to heat exchangers and things, probably due to it's viscosity, I'm not really sure.

Tofir Mira: I couldn't find what you were talking about on that link. Can you provide something a little more exact?

Pizzaman: That link didn't work at all for me...?


Drewlock: That picture is so small! Do you have anything bigger, that does look like a decent price, you're right, just crappy photos, haha.

On the german site, about making your own coolant heated filter; anyone a machinist or knows of one that could just do a quick estimate on making one of those pieces to connect everything? Am I getting this right when I say for that setup, all one would need is the heat exchanger off a vw, then the oil thing on the top from a vw or equivalent, a couple o-rings in between, from diesel filters or something, then just that center piece to tie it all together?

That last option seems very cost effective and a great, reusable idea! If only we can find the necessary pieces in a junkyard, and the scum bags that run those places don't try to rip me off as usual for a rotting piece of metal...

Here is the link to the posting with pictures of a Chevy oil cooler. The thread also has a listing of which cars have them. HTH

JoeM, Interesting idea (motor oil heated veggie filter). I'm just wondering, what makes you think that the motor oil will heat up before the coolant? Have you tested this? Sounds good, but I would've thought that the coolant would heat up faster since it flows through channels immediately adjacent to the combustion chamber. The waer content of the coolant would likely impart better (faster) thermal transfer properties than motor oil. On the other hand, since the motor oil doesn't flow through a heat radiator it probably does get hotter. Even if coolant gets hot faster, combining coolant heat with oil heat will likely give faster heat AND higher overal veggie temps. More work, but better performance. Maybe oil does warm up faster. Maybe oil is the best choice. Can somebody test this?

quote:

I can't even tell what the hell that is in your picture, are you driving throug fog or snow?

Both fog snow rain cold Driving by MT. Shasta last winter on Veggie with a 16 plate Heat Exchanger and with out a heated tank!


Found this heated filter Idea by the VeggieBurner Or Brian Miller
http://heatedfilter.blogspot.com/



have a good week
Omar
www.omarsales.com

quote:

Originally posted by welder:
JoeM, Interesting idea (motor oil heated veggie filter). I'm just wondering, what makes you think that the motor oil will heat up before the coolant? Have you tested this? Sounds good, but I would've thought that the coolant would heat up faster since it flows through channels immediately adjacent to the combustion chamber. The waer content of the coolant would likely impart better (faster) thermal transfer properties than motor oil. On the other hand, since the motor oil doesn't flow through a heat radiator it probably does get hotter. Even if coolant gets hot faster, combining coolant heat with oil heat will likely give faster heat AND higher overal veggie temps. More work, but better performance. Maybe oil does warm up faster. Maybe oil is the best choice. Can somebody test this?

Welder,
With all the engines we run around here, I've always watched the oil temp rise faster than the coolant temp. Course these are not real life setups. In a vehicle, coolant just might get hot faster than oil. I kinda doubt it though. There is only 5-8 quarts of oil, and it is in contact with the hot pistons all the time. There is a lot more coolant to heat up, and it has to heat up a lot more engine mass before it stabilizes. But, the oil does get hotter. I was just wondering with all these people trying electric methods to give the WVO that last little bit of heat, why not try the hot engine oil. Don't go by anything I say, though. I'm a BDer not a WVOer. Just putting in my 2 cents worth.

JoeM, First I wanna say that I really do appreciate your input (2 cents worth). Please don't get the idea that because I question any of your points that I'm trying to argue. I'm only trying to be thorough in my search for facts. I wouldn't do this if I didn't think your idea had merrit. It may be better than the status quo. Who knows? Only proper testing will tell. I wish Dana or someone capable would do solid testing of this. I can't right now, or I would. You say you've always watched the motor oil temps rise faster than the coolant temps. How much faster? What were the peak temps for each? Why do you say that your tests were "not real life setups"? Are these gensets or something?

I don't like the idea of using oil for heating WVO, because the risk of losing oil (or oil pressure) and destroying an engine very quickly - more quickly than overheating due to loss of coolant. For quickest heating, we like !2V, like, say, the Vegtherm (uh oh, was that an advertisement?)

Craig

quote:

For quickest heating, we like !2V, like, say, the Vegtherm (uh oh, was that an advertisement?)

Craig

Not if the Vegtherm is a heated filter

Seriously though....
I think that an FPHE is dependable enough to not have a LOT of concern that VO and lube oil might mix. My main concern would be that coolant is a much more steady and easily regulated heat source.

My personal favorite is a combination of an electrically heated filter head and coolant jacketed filter element. The advantage I see from this is that the VO in the filter head and directly adjacent to the filterhead (in the filter itself) are quickly liquified (no matter how cold it may be..or how high a MP oil.grease is used as fuel) and brought up to a desired temperature using 12v power. But once the coolant is up to full temp the majority of filter heating is provided by the coolant jacket.

Okay, thanks for the input. Anyway, wouldn't it be okay to just go with a very oversized filter and stick a vegtherm just ahead of the intake? Using a much larger filter should provide enough extra surface area to counter the temp related loss of flow until the vegtherm gets the whole filter hot. I even considered installing another valve on the veg line before the main fuel selector valve and circulating the whole veg line contents through the vegtherm and filter while the engine warms up. All I'd have to do is install a one way valve in the veg line just before the T fitting where the circuit returns to the pump. Sound reasonable?

I just realized I wouldn't need the one way valve after all, the warm veg being returned into the line through the t fitting will just get sucked into the pump again, not pushed back into the veg tank. There may be mixing (coldveg/warm veg) at the T fitting, but it should be minimal.

Welder,
No, I didn't think you were trying to argue with me. It's just that like I said, I'm not an SVOer, so there are a lot more people with better experience than I. How much faster does the engine oil temp rise? I've never really looked at the rate, just watched the data as many different engines were running. Peak temps of oil- I have seen 145 Deg C. (synthetic oil). Oil gets really hot going through a turbo charger with an engine under heavy load. No, not gen sets, Dynamometers. Have I not mentioned that I work in the engine developement labs for General Motors Powertrain at the GM Tech Center? If I had more time, I would conduct tests as well.

Dieselrover, those engine oil coolers to which I am referring are very stout units and are original equipment on a lot of production vehicles. They go between the oil filter and block. Dana is correct these FPHEs do not mix oil and coolant. I just had the thought that since hot lube oil is already going through one side, how would it be to have SVO instead of coolant going through the other side? I didn't think my musings would cause such a stir.

Dana, have you conducted any test on the unit I sent you?

quote:

wouldn't it be okay to just go with a very oversized filter and stick a vegtherm just ahead of the intake? Using a much larger filter should provide enough extra surface area to counter the temp related loss of flow until the vegtherm gets the whole filter hot.

Simply using a larger (more expensive) filter will not accomplish this goal unless the filter is always warm enough to alow SOME VO flow so the VO heated by the Vegtherm can reach the filter.

If the filter is cold enough to cause the VO inside it to gel it no VO will flow through the element and heated VO even just a few inches away in the Vegtherm will not have any ability/opportunity to "thaw out" the VO in the filter. And since wvo often has high Melt Point fats which saturate the element itself or tend to crystalize even when the low MP oils surrounding it the element itself flow may not be possible until heat is added directly to the VO in the filter...or at least to a portion of it.

Once some fuel flow is established and hot VO si beign provide to any filter it tends to "thaw out" quickly.

quote:

Dana, have you conducted any test on the unit I sent you?

Yes..link to answer.

quote:

this is what I use. I get 160 F with no electric heat at all as cold as 18 f outside so far

Pizzaman,
I tried to check your filter out but it just loads to the msn site and says cant find the address.

Does cold filtering (refrigerated) wvo cause the high melt point fats to stay in the cold filter? I mean, if I coarse filter, water wash, REFRIGERATE both the oil (to solidify the tallow out of the canola) and the filter, then cold filter, won't the tallow stay in the cold filter? This should allow better flow through a cool oversized filter in moderate climates while waiting for the vegtherm to heat the filter. No tallow etc, no clogged filter. Sound practical?

When I say cold filter I mean large pore size (50-200 micron). Hopefully a filter sock in that micron range would allow canola through while grabbing tallow etc. I could always use a multi stage filtration going from 200 microns to 100, 50, 20, 20, 10, 5 then finally 2 microns. Whether or not I try cold filtering out the tallow, I would still like to weld up a multi stage filter for general wvo use.

Unless you are getting only really good oil with no fat you will be wasting a lot of oil that could be used if you have a properly heated filter/fuel system. This thread has a lot of good info on heating the filters. That, along with the other system stuff will allow the use of most oils even those with high melt point fats that need to be heated for proper filtration.

http://www.takeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=82&sid=a...6&mforum=forrestgump


Step 1 wrap the filter with aluminum foil tape sticky side out....


Next wrap the resistor wire heater arround the filter..

then warp with foil tape sticky side in...


Then wrap with silicone tape ...



After you are done the sleve can be removed and transfered to a new filter like this...


We tested the performance and @ a flow rate of about 4.5 GPH the heated filter raised the temperature of 70f VO to over 105F

If you are interested there are more pics here...
http://www.fattywagons.com/install%20page.htm
_________________
www.fattywagons.com
Don't confuse effort with results...


I found this at fattywagons.com
anyway another heated filter idea
good luck
Omar
www.omarsales.com

http://www.benjaminellis.net/benjaminellisdotnet/projects/WVO/TDI.htm

you may want to take a look at Benjamin Ellis's project great ideas!

have a good read

Omar
www.omarsales.com

I am sure that it depends on the engine but in my experience oil heats slower than the coolant but it eventually gets hotter than the coolant. For shorter trips, the switchover would be sooner with coolant (and/or electric) than it would be with oil heat.

Heated Vegetable Oil Filter

Vegetable Oil Filter with colling water.

Advanteges:

* headet Filter
* Filter until 10 µm possible
* no fat blockage
* super flow rate high surface
* compact diamensinon

included:

* Filter Head
* all conector
* Filter
* Holder
has anyone used this wvo heated filter?

http://onlineshop.poeltec.de/product_info.php?info=p2_P...%20Select%2012V.html

Omar
www.omarsales.com